Deathknell for the EU

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Mercutio01	Deathknell for the EU	Lead	[-]
Posts: 571 (06/03/05 06:08:44) Ancient Dragon Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None In the interest of restarting the political threads herein, I have stepped forward. Does this signal the deathknell of the Europian Union? With the "no" votes by both the Netherlands and France and now the possible rejection of the Euro by the Italians, is Europe now going to have to start at square one?
Black Plauge	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#1	[-]
Posts: 3566 (06/03/05 06:32:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In short, no. The EU has proven to be far more of a sucess than a failure. While the rejection of the Constitution by France and the Netherlands means that its leadership will have to rethink how its going to move forward, it certianly doesn't signal the start of backwards motion. As for the Italian that wants Italy to pull out of the Euro, he's not the one making the decision, and it seems that those actually making the decision don't agree with him. The euro has, for the most part, been a success, making international buisness within Europe far easier and more profitable (well, except for the money changers). The current economic slow down that Italy is experiencing is not the fault of the euro (though it does make a good scapegoat) and would not be solved by the reintroduction of the lira. The problem has more to do with a slow reaction on the part of Italian buisnesses to modern demand. The government needs to focus more on encouraging inovation and development. Switching back to the lira won't do this. Physics is like sex; it sometimes gives practical results, but that's not why we do it. -Richard Feinman For all your moderating needs.
Mercutio01	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#2	[-]
Posts: 571 (06/03/05 06:39:53) Ancient Dragon Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* The euro has, for the most part, been a success, making international buisness within Europe far easier and more profitable (well, except for the money changers). Having been there fairly recently, I agree. It does seem that the Euro doesn't have the same buying power universally, and the time I tried to use the Euro in London was not a pretty sight. (I realize that the UK doesn't like the Euro, but it was a shock to me how adamantly against using it the shopkeeper was.)
sirtaylsdm	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#3	[-]
Posts: 7150 (06/03/05 08:24:15) ADHD Teacher Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* but it was a shock to me how adamantly against using it the shopkeeper was.) just curious - how many places did you try? All your DVD needs at Taylor Digital Services
Mercutio01	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#4	[-]
Posts: 571 (06/03/05 08:27:35) Ancient Dragon Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Three, actually. One was a bookstore. One was a McDonald's and the other was a bar. It wasn't the same day, but it was during the same one week trip between London and Edinburgh.
Black Plauge	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#5	[-]
Posts: 3566 (06/03/05 08:59:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As far as I know, the variances in the buying power of the euro in Europe is no diffrent from the variances in the buying power of the dollar in the US. There are places you can go in the US where certain commodities are naturally cheaper (generally close to the source). In other locations the exact same thing may cost much more. So it is in Europe. Add to that the general diffrences in cost of living (and therefore all prices) and you can see items that show a very wide change in price from one location to another. We Americans have been dealing with that years now. The Europeans have too, but the fact that individual contries are fairly small and had their own currency (leading to minimal price fluctuations before you had to change your money) has been hiding that. Give them a little while and they'll get used to it. Physics is like sex; it sometimes gives practical results, but that's not why we do it. -Richard Feinman For all your moderating needs.
SPQR Anarchy	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#6	[-]
Posts: 1353 (06/03/05 09:40:27) Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The strength to bind nations of the EU is not only in the economic arena. The European Defense Force will be a direct challenge to the US led NATO and be a 21st century power while NATO falls the way of the League of Nations or will itself be undermined by American interests. As a Canadian I am particularly hopeful that the EU cannot form a defense force and that NATO triumphs. The Pacific rim is the worlds premier power grounds and a strong Europe will side with China in most matters for economic benefits and for reasons tied to their own power block. If that happens then the US, Canada, Japan, and Australia (and hopefully a unified Korea - Which I bank on more than a set of South and Central American navies) will be the only powers truly allied in the Pacific against an assertive China looking to strengthen its own shipping power and economy at the expense of the West. The death-knell of the EU will be a failure of military cooperation and the frontier nations (US, CND, AUS) should hope for that. SPQR ________________________________________________________ Do Not Duplicate
AustrianOak	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#7	[-]
Posts: 1136 (06/03/05 10:54:38) Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sounds like a fun conversation. It is not a death knell, they can still operate under the old constitution I think. I do not agree with the EU siding with China. The strength of the Euro is not a sign that the EU is successful. Infact the major European economies are not and have not been doing well for quite awhile. Of course the U.K. has been doing ok, but they aren't part of the EU? I'll argue more, but can't atm.
Metalliccello	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#8	[-]
Posts: 931 (06/03/05 13:15:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know how going back to the Lira is going to help Italy, as when they were on it, they were definatley hurting from inflation. When I was in Italy... 6 years ago? 1,000 Lira was worth about $.70 USD. I can understand wanting to keep a nation's currency for other reasons, but going back and readopting the Lira would not be real good for Italy I can imagine. I'll be learning the woes of currency exchange this summer when I go to Denmark for a month. I plan on traveling all over northern Europe, which, of course, is the part of Europe without the Euro. So I'll have lots of fun exchanging Kroner's.
SPQR Anarchy	Re: Deathknell for the EU	#9	[-]
Posts: 1353 (06/04/05 10:39:24) Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	AO, The EU would have limited options in the future. The US or China. As more than half the worlds population and its economy live in the pacific rim they are not in a position to garner much power for themselves. As China liberalizes it political faces in a smaller but proportionate manner to its economic face the EU will be presented with the option of siding with the US in containing China as it tries to assert its new power position or with the US as an emerging power. As every nation in the past has been assertive with its power as it has risen to superpower status so too will China. The confrontation will be hard for the Americans particularly if the EU goes with China's new record of political liberties and the ever more lucrative economic benefits that will follow. The EU may not have much of a choice in that regard, the new organization will go where the best offer is made. In either scenario, the US loses power, and so too will Canada and Mexico. For background reading this months copy of the Atlantic Magazine has a feature on these types of scenarios. They present it a little more black and white but the research is still there (Leave it to Kaplan - a political scientist and regular writer for them). There are also many solid sources on every side of the political spectrum that predict as much. The middle east only occupies over eager grad students, the real future of international political theory lies in the Pacific and all the good theorists are churning out work on this region and leaving the middle east to folks like Chomsky, Klein, and all the other demagogues. After all, You can screw up a craphole like Iraq, and maybe even Iran, but you can't screw up a Korea or or even the atolls of Micronesia without a possible world war. The mid east is literally and figurativly a sandbox to play around in. SPQR what part of the Anglo-Sino Alliance don't you understand, best just go get a brown coat now.(Firefly reference ) ________________________________________________________ Do Not Duplicate

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