ECL Listing From Dragon 293

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Aranan	ECL Listing From Dragon 293	Lead	[-]
Posts: 7273 (11/14/02 19:43:28) Champion of Oolong Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Yes, I typed it all up. It took me forever to find these and I thought others might want it as well. Half is reformatted. The rest will come later when I'm not so tired. -=HUMANOIDS=-Bugbear 4Dwarf 0Elf 0 Aquatic 1 Dark 2 Gray 0 Wild 0 Wood 0Gnoll 3Gnome 0Goblin 0Hobgoblin 1Kobold 0Lizardfolk 4Locathah 3Merfolk 1Orc 0Sahuagin 5 (6 with 4 arms)Troglodyte 5-=MONSTROUS HUMANOIDS=-Centaur 7Grimlock 5Hag Sea hag 8 Annis 12 Green hag 14Harpy 10Kuo-toa 7Medusa 10Minotaur 10Yuan-ti Pureblood 12 Halfblood 14Abomination 16-=GIANTS=-Ettin 15Giant Hill 16 Stone 18 (Elder) 20 Frost 18 Fire 19 Cloud 23 Storm 26Ogre 8 Merrow 9Ogre mage 12Troll 11 Scrag 11-=FEY=-Dryad 4Grig 6Nixie 3Nymph 12Pixie 5 With Dance 7Satyr 7-=ANIMAL=-Ape 9Baboon 4Badger 3Bat 2Bear, black 6Bear, brown 10Bear, polar 12Bison 8Boar 7Camel 5Cat 0Cheetah 7Crocodile 7Crocodile,giant 10Dog 3Dog, riding 4Donkey 2Eagle 3Elephant 13Hawk 3Horse, heavy 4Horse,heavy war 6Horse, light 4Horse,light war 5Leopard 7Lion 8Lizard 0Lizard, giant 4Monkey 0Mule 4Octopus 5Octopus, giant 12Owl 3Pony 3Pony, war 3Porpoise 5Rat 0Raven 2Rhinoceros 12Shark,medium 5Shark, large 10Shark, huge 13Snake, constric 7Snake, gi const 14Snake, tny vpr 3Snake, smll vpr 4Snake, med vpr 5Snake, lrg vpr 6Snake, huge vpr 8Squid 5Squid, giant 15Tiger 10Toad 0Weasel 1Whale, baleen 13Whale, cachalot 14Whale, orca 13Wolf 3Wolverine 5-=DIRE ANIMALS=-Dire rat 2Dire weasel 5Dire badger 5Dire bat 9Dire ape 10Dire wolverine 8Dire wolf 8Dire boar 11Dire lion 10Dire bear 15Dire tiger 20Dire shark 22-=BEASTS=-Ankheg 8Bulette 14Dinosaur Deionychus 8 Elasmosarus 8 Megaraptor 12 Triceratops 18 T-Rex 22Girallon 11Gray render 16Griffon 10Hippogriff 5-=MAGICAL BEASTS=-Basilisk 10Blink dog 8Chimera 15Cockatrice 10Darkmantle 6Digester 10Displacer beast 11Dragonne 11Ethereal Maraud. 6Frost worm 17Gargoyle 9Giant eagle 8Giant owl 8Gorgon 12Kraken 28Krenshar 5Lamia 12Lammasu 12Manticore 10Pegasus 8Phase spider 10Remorhaz 13Roper 18Shocker lizard 4Sphinx Androsphinx 19 Criosphinx 15 Gynosphinx 17 Hierocosphinx 14Spider eater 9Tarrasque 80Unicorn 9Winter wolf 9Worg 6Yrthak 18-=SHAPECHANGER=-Aranea 8Doppelganger 8Phasm 22-=PLANT=-Assassin vine (no move) [not listed]Fungus (no move) Violet fung 7Phantom fungus 8Shambling mound 14Tendriculous 16Treant 13-=CONSTRUCT=-Animated object (no int) Tiny 5 Small 6 Medium 8 Large 10 Huge 14 Gargantuan 21 Colossal 36Golem (no int) Flesh 15 Clay 19 Stone 22 Iron 26Homunculus 8Retriever 20Shld guardian 23-=ABERRATIONS=-Aboleth 17Athach 20Beholder 24Carrion crawler 7Choker 8Chuul 18Cloaker 14Delver 22Destrachan 14Drider 11Ethereal Filchr 10Ettercap 9Gibbering mouth 9Grick 7Mimic 12Mind flayer 18Naga Water 13 Spirit 16 Dark 16 Guardian 19Otyugh 9Rust monster 9Skum 6Umber hulk 15Will-o-wisp 19-=UNDEAD=-Allip 13Bodak 15Devourer 22Ghast 8Ghoul 6Mohrg 19Mummy 11Nightshade Nightwing 26 Nightwalker 30 Nightcrawler 34Shadow 13Skeleton, Med 5Spectre 17Vampire spawn 12Wight 9Wraith 15Zombie, Med 5-=ELEMENTAL=-Belker 12Elemental Air, small 7 Air, medium 9 Air, large 14 Air, huge 21 Air, greater 25 Air, elder 28 Earth, small 7 Earth, medium 9 Earth, large 14 Earth, huge 21 Earth, greatr 25 Earth, elder 28 Fire, small 6 Fire, medium 8 Fire, large 13 Fire, huge 20 Fire, greater 25 Fire, elder 28 Water, small 6 Water, medium 8 Water, large 13 Water, huge 20 Water, greatr 25 Water, elder 28Invis Stalker 15Magmin 6Thoqqua 7-=OUTSIDER=-Achaierai 12Arrowhawk Juvenile 8 Adult 11 Elder 18Aasimar 1Azer 6Barghest Barghest 25 Greatr Barg. 30Celestials Lantrn archon 5 Hound archon 12 Avoral 14 Ghaele 20 Trumpt archon 20 Astral deva 20 Planetar 28 Solar 36Chaos beast 14Couatl 18Demon Dretch 5 Quasit 7 Succubus 13 Bebilith 20 Retriever 20 Vrock 18 Hezrou 22 Glabrezu 23 Nalfeshnee 24 Marilith 24 Balor 28Devil Lemure 4 Imp 7 Osyluth 11 Kyton 14 Hellcat 13 Barbazu 14 Erinyes 14 Hamatula 18 Cornugon 22 Gelugon 24 Pit fiend 26Djinni 13 Noble 18Efreeti 19Formian Worker 6 Warrior 10 Taskmaster 12 Myrmarch 18 Queen 30Hell hound 6Howler 10Janni 11Lillend 14Mephit Air 6 Dust 6 Earth 6 Fire 6 Ice 6 Magma 6 Ooze 6 Salt 6 Steam 6 Water 6Night hag 16Nightmare 10Ravid 9Rakshasa 14Rast [not listed]Salamander Flamebrother 7 Average Sal 12 Noble 20Shadow mastiff 9Tiefling 1Titan 30Tojanida Juvenile 7 Adult 11 Elder 18Triton 5Vargouille 4Xill 12Xorn Minor 9 Average 12 Elder 20Yeth hound 8-=DRAGON=-Wyrmling 8Very young 11Young 14Juvenile 17Yong adult 20Adult 23Mature adult 26Old 29Very old 32Ancient 35Wyrm 38Great wyrm 41White +0Black +1Green +2Blue +3Red +4Brass +1Copper +2Bronze +3Silver +4Gold +5-=VERMIN=-Giant ant Worker 4 Soldier 5 Queen 7Giant Bee 7-=TEMPLATES=-Celestial +2Fiendish +2Ghost +4Half-celestial +5Half-dragon +4Half-fiend +5Lich +3Vampire +5 Oolong is neat. Click here! Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. [It is time to roll the dice.]
Unrelenting Newbie	Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293	#1	[-]
Posts: 555 (11/15/02 06:57:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Golly, what a swell guy you are, Aranan. I've been wanting this for a long time, but I'm too lazy and cheap to order a back issue. Hooray for you Click here for instant gratification.
Thalantor	Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293	#2	[-]
Posts: 9783 (11/15/02 06:59:34) Dutch Fluff Bunny Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Especially since you're so kind a to risk a prison sentence for us. I'll write you whil you're in the slammer, i promise.. secretly calls the Copyright Police (I don't even know if it's legal or not, but what the hee. ) "I think Mialee is one stressed out treehugger with personal issues. But that's just my opinion." - Tordek's Memoires
Sheleph	ECL's	#3	[-]
Posts: 704 (11/15/02 07:37:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Oooh excellent, thank you thank you thank you, all muchly appreciated. Yes, a bit naughty though, don't do it again (but awfully glad you did!)
Aranan	Re: ECL's	#4	[-]
Posts: 7273 (11/15/02 08:27:34) Champion of Oolong Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This stupid thing took me forever to find, so I figured I might as well share the wealth ^_^ Oolong is neat. Click here! Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. [It is time to roll the dice.]
Drakey	Re: ECL's	#5	[-]
Posts: 3119 (11/15/02 13:50:40) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There was actually a note in the article saying it was kosher to copy and share, so no copyright worries. They probably just don't want a million emails about it at wizards.
Aranan	Re: ECL's	#6	[-]
Posts: 7273 (11/15/02 13:53:58) Champion of Oolong Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Really? Cool. I couldn't read the tiny text because my downloaded copy was low quality ^_^ In that case.. Share! Share! Oolong is neat. Click here! Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. [It is time to roll the dice.]
no interference	Re: ECL's	#7	[-]
Posts: 3082 (11/15/02 15:56:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Don't forget that most of these ECL's are flat out wrong. "With the eloquence of a drunk eating his own puke, you have stumbled through this fact completely oblivious."
Aranan	Re: ECL's	#8	[-]
Posts: 7273 (11/15/02 16:03:43) Champion of Oolong Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But they can be used as a way to roughly estimate what they are See Oolong do his famous Head Performances here. Pancakes, rice cakes, egg cakes, tea cakes, roll cakes.. So many cakes! Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. [It is time to roll the dice.]
no interference	Re: ECL's	#9	[-]
Posts: 3082 (11/15/02 17:01:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Most of them are repeated. I think the ones they remade are just too high. Centaurs are just not +7 ECL. I don't even see why they're +5. These systems, ECL and CR, are by no means perfect. I frequently look at CRs for creatures and say "What?" out loud because it seems so silly. "With the eloquence of a drunk eating his own puke, you have stumbled through this fact completely oblivious."
boring7	Re: ECL's	#10	[-]
Posts: 5013 (11/15/02 20:41:23) Ancient Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I like most of the CR's. A party with average power level (that means you use weaker beasties if you're doing "low magic" or some such) is usually of the proper level to fight the monsters as described. Of course by 15th level when things get to the "kill you instantly" stage of the game it's a bit more complicated, since chances are you're going to end the fight in one round. ECL's on the other hand, well. . .They REALLY overestimated a lot of 'em, and then ignored others. Hobgoblins get an assload of bonuses for ECL +1 yet others seem very overpriced. "Hello, we're the heavily armed ambassadors of friendship and fun! how are ya?"
Nykez	Re: ECL's	#11	[-]
Posts: 1632 (11/15/02 21:21:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Oh come now... overpriced... i think comparitively that the Riding dog at +4 is worth every penny when compared to the crappy hobgoblin of +1
BigRedRod	Re: ECL's	#12	[-]
Posts: 5144 (11/16/02 04:17:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Hobgoblins get an assload of bonuses for ECL +1 Hit's boring7 witha rolled up newspaper I hope that's a typo, or you just weren't thinking striaght HobGobs are such a bad deal for +1, they are a little much for zero, it's just another reason why a discrete level addition system doesn't work I feel that some sort of exp limiter would work a little beeter, of course it's so meta it's crazy But yes some of these ECLs are crazy You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.
Bahamut44	Re: ECL's	#13	[-]
Posts: 3139 (11/18/02 07:45:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ooh...discrete...bleah. Discrete Math is hard! :P Anyways...I will point out real quick that all of the animal ECLs are listed for awakened versions of the creatures. Just so you know it does mean that they can speak and have good mental ability scores...maybe some other stuff as well. -Zach The Kor'nui Homepage AIM: FraggingDragon, ZOTBahamut Email: ToupsZ@Southwestern.EDU
schnivelbiv	Re: ECL's	#14	[-]
Posts: 310 (11/18/02 18:26:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Another thanks. this saves me 6 bucks! "An unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates, through Plato
Gophers or Groundhogs	Weird	#15	[-]
Posts: 86 (11/18/02 22:34:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The ECLs in that article seem to be inconsistant with the DMG. According to the DMG, the Minnotaur has an ECL of 8, but according to this they have 10. Does anyone know why?
BigRedRod	Re: Weird	#16	[-]
Posts: 5144 (11/19/02 02:08:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	this is an unofficial second look at ECLs the DMG was the first look You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.
Cruel Despot	Awakened vs. Non-awakened	#17	[-]
Posts: 2278 (11/19/02 06:23:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I searched every D&D store in town looking for that back issue of Dragon. Thanks! You pointed out that the stats for animals assume that they are awakened. Is this true for any other races on the lists? I wonder how the ECLs for awakened animals can be correct. The "Awaken" spell gives the target +2HD. Wouldn't that make the minimum ECL 2?
Bahamut44	Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened	#18	[-]
Posts: 3139 (11/21/02 17:41:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmm...I don't know for sure, I do believe it's only the animals category. Someone with the magazine near them could probably provide more insight on it. Is there any way we can keep this post permanently somewhere? -Zach The Kor'nui Homepage AIM: FraggingDragon, ZOTBahamut Email: ToupsZ@Southwestern.EDU
Drakey	Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened	#19	[-]
Posts: 3119 (11/22/02 06:57:57) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I remember it was only the animals. The only other details from the article were which creatures had low or no Intelligence, and which couldn't move (since those groups are a little harder to play).
Aranan	Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened	#20	[-]
Posts: 7273 (11/22/02 08:01:39) Champion of Oolong Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There were a couple creatures that weren't reccomended for players. Ones that couldn't move and ones with no intelligence. Hold on.. I'll find out which ones. I didn't include them the first time because I had to find a way to save space on my formatting. Okay.. here it comes. Dryad (Treebinding makes dryads inapprorpriate for PCs) Octopus (weapons limited to 2) Ankheg (Int 1) bulette (Int 2) All dinosaurs (Int 2) Girallon (int 2) Gray render (int 3) Griffon (int 5) Hippogriff (int 4) Basilisk (int 2) Cockatrice (int 2) Darkmantle (int 2) Digester (int 2) Shocker lizard (int 2) Spider eater (int 2) Assassin vine (no move) Fungus (no move) animated object (no int) Golem (no int) shield guardian (no int) Carrior crawler (int1) Zombie (no int) Skeleton (no int) Queen Formian (immobile) BUMP See Oolong do his famous Head Performances here. Pancakes, rice cakes, egg cakes, tea cakes, roll cakes.. So many cakes! "Cool. He looks like my rabbit, Wilbur." -Monte Cook in refrence to Oolong.

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ECL Listing From Dragon 293

ECL Listing From Dragon 293

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