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 Drakey |
Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened | ||
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Posts: 3119 (12/26/02 21:15:29) Local user |
I'm considering offering a few awakened animals as PC races in an upcoming campaign, since some of them are listed as ECL 0. I have some questions:
Awaken grants +2 HD--don't you think this should make all of them more than ECL 0? Do you think playing a talking animal is outright silly? |
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NiugnepKing |
Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened | ||
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Posts: 672 (12/26/02 21:21:35) |
Hey Aranan, if you put the [ c o d e ] tag and the ending one around your list, wouldn't that make it look pretty?
If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for the night. If you light a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life. |
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no interference |
Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened | ||
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Posts: 3082 (12/27/02 04:05:49) |
Well...an awakened cat is +0 because it's a CAT. It gets 2 HD...SO WHAT. It's a CAT. It gets -8 str, +4 dex, 3d6 int, +2 wis, and -4 +1d3 cha. Obviously no cat melee fighters. A cat rogue would be decent, but could do virtually nothing about traps or locks (since it has no fingers). Best bet is a caster, and there aren't many places on a cat to put material components. Better start thinking about Eschew Materials for every single animal caster you ever make. That's why it can have 2 HD and be equal to a human or a gnome.
It's a CAT.  ROCK OUT |
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Syko MetalMonkey |
Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened | ||
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Posts: 886 (12/30/02 08:53:12) |
Hehehehehehhe
Hehehehehehehe Reminds me of an annoying flim studies lecture (I HATE film studies) Le Hien - what does the cow symbolize? ITS A COW!!! LIVE WITH IT!!!! ...now a monkey has a thumb, but its not oppasable... ..so, i assume it can manipulate certain things but to not a higher degree than apes and the like... Sooooo... what would be the penalties to ..well, whatver they get penalties to? Pick Pocket ans the like i assume.. (Yes, its awakened) Sheesh.  There is no Spoon..
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Scooter |
Re: Awakened vs. Non-awakened | ||
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Posts: 2330 (12/30/02 12:06:22) Local user |
And why did KuoTua get ECL7 while Sahuagin are ECL5
They're pretty even I'd say with the Sahuagin's improved racial mods making them even a little better . . . I guess they came up with the ECL independently and didn't do comparisons "Well, while I'm here I'll do the work -- and what's the work? To ease the pain of living ... Everything else is drunken dumbshow." -- Allen Ginsberg |
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BigRedRod |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 5144 (01/08/03 14:45:05) |
I've seen a good few posts asking for this thread recently, some nice little mod remeber to archive it when it's gone
But for now, I'll give a good old bump so that everyone can see it and hopefully a few questions will be answered What's ADD stand for? Attention Deficit LET'S GO RIDE BIKES! |
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SamualBellamber |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 2416 (01/08/03 15:50:31) |
I'll be sure to archive it.
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Samual Bellamber aka Another incarnation of Dan Baicy The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing --Socrates (by way of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure) |
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BigRedRod |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 5144 (01/08/03 17:49:08) |
Thanks
 I'd hate to think of this thread dropping into the abyss What's ADD stand for? Attention Deficit LET'S GO RIDE BIKES! |
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Aranan |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 7273 (01/08/03 18:36:41) Champion of Oolong |
Gah, me too. This thing took too long to do ^_^
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Lynx T Cat |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 2143 (01/09/03 06:30:35) |
If I can comment just a little thing before archiving... I didn't actually go over those ECLs comparing them with the respective monsters (haven't found time to do that yet), but I agree that most of them are kinda high. And it seems to me that it's a common theme to think that the ECL should be at least equal to the amount of HD gained, if not higher, if the monster has special abilities... well I beg to differ. See, if you take the monster HD progression, you'll see that most monster types don't quite match in power with the D&D classes. For example, a 5 HD humanoid whose special abilities / stat bonuses more or less match the regular PHB races is generally weaker than a human, dwarf, elf etc. character with 5 levels in regular PHB classes.
Therefore, the way I see it, you should leave it to the monstrous race's special abilities to "fill in the blanks", in relation to the lack of class abilities, or a good BAB, saving throws, and so on. If the abilities fill the "blanks" so nicely that the monster is effectively equivalent to a "normal" character with as many class levels as it has HD (which would be the perfect setup, IMHO), then give it ECL equivalent to it's HD... if the abilities make it go overboard, up the ECL above the HD. On the other hand, if those abilities don't quite match the possible class abilities of a "normal" character whose level is equivalent to the creature's HD, as long as the lack of abilities is significant enough, I don't see anything wrong with giving it an ECL adjustment lower than the HD gained... for balance purposes, you could consider it like the monster had that many levels in a class that's got really high HP and decent combat abilities, but no other abilities at all. On the other hand, if the lack of special abilities isn't really that bad, just give an ECL equal to the HD and let the player bite the bullet
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Aranan |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 7273 (01/09/03 06:59:14) Champion of Oolong |
These ECLs are definitely not the end-all definitions. They're rough outlines and WotC aimed high so they wouldn't have any DMs complaining about letting 'so-and-so' race be such a low ECL. Review these before using them. Adjust to your tastes.
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Lynx T Cat |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 2143 (01/09/03 07:01:41) |
Maybe that's asking way too much, but what would be ideal would be for them to playtest all those races and find out what ECL really works "out in the field"... maybe we can hope them to get that right by 2010
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Aranan |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 7273 (01/09/03 07:18:28) Champion of Oolong |
Supposedly they're doing that for the Tooth and Fang.. or whatever the name is for that stupid book to let players play as monsters.
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Aranan |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 7273 (01/18/03 09:06:05) Champion of Oolong |
-=bump=-
Was this going in the DM Archives? |
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NiugnepKing |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 672 (01/18/03 13:51:56) |
Anybody know where I could find ECL listing of stuff in say the Monster Manual II? I wanted to know what the half-golem template in there goes for level wise, because I think it'd be interesting to have him fight my PCs and I would like to try and play one eventually.
Any takers? w00t |
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UltimateGuidoAnchovy |
Re: ECL Listing From Dragon 293 | ||
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Posts: 345 (01/24/03 11:50:47) |
I too was looking for an ECL for the half-golem. However the thread I posted that question on died instantly. It was sad
 However I second the question here. Guido Anchovy may look like Mary Poppins with that umbrella but he has fists of iron, nerves of steel, and a tin ear. But hes got a heart of gold and a clanking brass...personality.-Ninja Crow |
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