Multi-Classing

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Doom Duck	Multi-Classing	Lead	[-]
Posts: 275 (06/09/02 22:12:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None My question's pretty simple, and the post should be pretty short, unlike most of my topics. . . Does multiclassing severely limit a PC's power? Where should you stop, two classes, three classes, four classes? Would focusing on one class, but nabbing two others, be alrigh? What if you managed to avoid the exp. penalties by uysing favored classes, would it change things? Oh, and assume the character has a good story for having all these classes, that's just a good idea all the time anyways. . . ~Doom Duck
dhwarlock	Re: Multi-Classing	#1	[-]
Posts: 540 (06/09/02 23:20:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	depends.................... It broadenss their skills (in a general term).... but means they give up expertise I try not to multiclass if there is an xp penalty. basically what it all boils down to though is ... Does it fit the character concept. "NO! Bad drow! Down!" Dorgoth Hadess' not so famous last words
Bahamut44	Re: Multi-Classing	#2	[-]
Posts: 3139 (06/10/02 05:43:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Unless you're using prestige classes, about the only classes that can REALLY get away with lots of multiclassing are fighter classes multiclassing into fighter classes. Of course, picking up a level or two in another class for flavor doesn't hurt you that much. -Zach The Kor'nui Homepage AIM: FraggingDragon, ZOTBahamut Email: ToupsZ@Southwestern.EDU
ogwul	Re: Multi-Classing	#3	[-]
Posts: 820 (06/10/02 06:04:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Personally, I (and the groups I have played with) rarely, if ever, achieve the "epic" levels that most of the rest of the gaming community seems to routinely enjoy. I find that the low to mid level (4th-10th) adventures are the most nail-biting. In my estimation, a 10th level character is mighty, a 12th - titanic, and 15th is unearthly. As you can see, my groups rarely achieve the "higher level" powers that are so coveted by most players and therefore we prefer the broad bredth of skills offered by multiclassing. In addition to being more "well-rounded" PCs, we find they more offer more depth to the character and enhance the role-playing experience. Just my 2 copper. -ogwul
Razar Kutter	Re: Multi-Classing	#4	[-]
Posts: 1561 (06/10/02 06:27:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Multiclassing will really hurt spellcasting classes as just a couple levels of anything else will prevent you from casting the more powerful spells. For instance a 5th level wizard has access to 3rd level spells such as fireball, lightning bolt, fly, etc...With just one level of non wizard your maximum level spell is 2. That is an extreme difference in my opinion. The perfect ration-jerked troll- bring two days worth and it lasts forever!
Unregistered(d)	Re: Multi-Classing	#5	[-]
Posts: 0 (06/13/02 11:00:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Has anybody thought about the fact that when you multiclass, you add a +2 (minimum) bonus on a save? even worst, NO CLASS gets this on a normal level up.... it´s sure the the spelcasting classes lose MUCH more... IMHO thats how WTC solved the fighter/mage problem in 2ed ( i mean, a 10/10 F/M needs almost as much XP as a 12 fighter) ------------------------------------------------------------ ....tiiime is on my side, yes it is!.....
Carter Lupus	Yup	#6	[-]
Posts: 1430 (06/13/02 11:35:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But even so, some classes don't advance in BAB or abilities, And a 1fighter/1barbarian/1ranger has no bonus on will or reflex saving throws
Unregistered(d)	Re: Yup	#7	[-]
Posts: 0 (06/13/02 11:54:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree Lupus, i think it´s an option. To have a character with + 6 FOR an +0 REF/WILL or a more balanced concept. BUT..if you can work well with your party, as a real group, this wouldn´t be a problem ....and your fighter/barbarian/ranger would still hit VERY hard !! i´ve read this in another topic..( dont know where) ..about maxing out a single class( maybe two), and i´m sure, as a DM, that a efficient party where every player knows his part can have very bright solutions to the challenges you put in front of them ------------------------------------------------------"....tiiiiime is on my side, YES it is....."
Carter Lupus	Evil laughter.	#8	[-]
Posts: 1430 (06/13/02 12:04:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Look at that my pet, there they are, looking for me. I'll have to get rid of those pesky spellcasters first. Where is those Fighters I have to charm? On sla'ught, red enchanter of Thay
Unregistered(d)	innocent smile	#9	[-]
Posts: 0 (06/13/02 12:22:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Clara, the Cleric: "May the blessings of #@ (whatever do-gooder deity) protect thee o´mighty warrior ****** (protection from evil)******....now could you please remove that odd looking bald man from our way??? " ------------------------------------------------------"....tiiiiime is on my side, YES it is....."
Power Munchkin	hm	#10	[-]
Posts: 4979 (06/13/02 14:27:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Spellcasters shouldn't multiclass. Fightin' types should. A rogue3/fighter2/barbarian2/exPally1/templar1/some other class is damn difficult to kill. Plus he has some insane skills and abilities (such as if he makes a save he takes NO DAMAGE... From anything. Ever. Unless he's stupid enough to wear non-mithril, non-nimble medium/heavy armor)
Scott	Re: hm	#11	[-]
Posts: 1796 (06/13/02 20:17:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Spellcasters shouldn't multiclass. Fightin' types should." One exception to this rule, the spell casting prestige classes that have fighter type requirements, ie. spellsword, arcane archer, bladesinger, Cormanthian War Wizard, etc. Sometimes you need to take a level of fighter. Get those armor and weapon proficiencies. Another exception would be the other prestige classes that require you to have something exclusive to another class, like sneak attack damage, or divine spell casting ability. -----ScottI'm about as fluffy as a rock.
DevilSavh	Re: hm	#12	[-]
Posts: 62 (06/13/02 22:56:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Multiclassing intimidates me. Mainly because I don't grasp the concept of how XP penalties work so good. Then again, I'm a fairly new player...I should probably just read through the book again to figure things out for myself. Or maybe... I'm just dumb. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Currently working on my new sig. ^_^
J Cauchi	Re: hm	#13	[-]
Posts: 1613 (06/14/02 03:06:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I'll vote against the last option. 'And when the chill began to turn to frost... that was when he realised he was having a bad case of indigestion...'
Andorax	Re: hm	#14	[-]
Posts: 7052 (06/14/02 07:14:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DevilSavh, it's not really all that complicated. You can take a level of ANY class (or any Prestige Class for which you meet all of the qualifications) whenever you gain a new Character Level. Your Character Level always remains the sum of all of your classes' levels added together, and ONLY your Character Level is tracked on the experience chart (without getting into ECL). You're a 3rd level Rogue. You take a level of Fighter. You're now a 4th level Character, with 3 Rogue levels and 1 Fighter level. The Drawback: Whenever you have (any) two classes seperated by more than 1 level, you have a -20% to any experience points you earn. So the above 3rd level Rogue/1st level Fighter would only get 80% of the experience of his buddies from the on, until the classes are no longer separated by more than 1 level. If, at 5th level, he took another Fighter level, he'd be 3/2 and "in balance" again. Rogue 3/Fighter1/Wizard4 - 40% penalty (Rogue 3/Fighter 1 and Wizard 4/Fighter 1) Barbarian 1/Rogue1/Wizard1/Cleric1/Fighter1/Bard2 - No penalty (all in balance). However, if this character's next level were a Bard level, he'd theoretically have a -100% XP penalty and be unable to gain levels any more. The Exception: Your "favored Class" is ignored for the purpose of multiclassing XP penalties. Just pretend like it's not even there. The above Rogue3/Fighter1/Wizard4 would have a 40% penalty. If it were a Halfling (favored: Rogue), it would only be a 20% penalty for Fighter/Wizard. If it were an Elf (favored: Wizard), it would only be a 20% penalty for Fighter/Rogue. If it were a Dwarf (favored: Fighter), there'd be no penalty (Rogue and Wizard are in balance with each other). Humans and Half-Elves always count their HIGHEST level as their "favored" class. Thus, if the above Rogue3/Fighter1/Wizard4 were human, it would be just like the Elf (Wizard ignored). If said human were stubborn and took two more Rogue levels (to Rogue5/Fighter1/Wizard4), the Rogue class would become favored, and it would be like the Halfling (as Rogue's now the highest). Finally, Prestige Classes are always ignored for everybody...they NEVER cause an XP Multiclassing penalty. And it's a good thing to, as it would be difficult to avoid such a penalty unless you qualified with just your favored class. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
DevilSavh	Re: hm	#15	[-]
Posts: 62 (06/14/02 07:17:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ah...thank you Andorax, that made it a lot clearer to me. ^_^ scribbles down notes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Power corrupts, and absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Savh, King of the Sammich since 1853. The Next Dimension ~ My little board, please check us out.
Carter Lupus	beware:	#16	[-]
Posts: 1430 (06/14/02 07:31:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Barbarian 1/Rogue1/Wizard1/Cleric1/Fighter1/Bard2 - No penalty (all in balance). However, if this character's next level were a Bard level, he'd theoretically have a -100% XP penalty and be unable to gain levels any more." If the race has fav. class: bard, there is no penalty whatsoever.
Andorax	Re: beware:	#17	[-]
Posts: 7052 (06/14/02 08:06:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Please note, Carter...this was an example I used before I brought up the point of favored classes. A Human/Half-Elf would be in good shape. a Half-Orc, Halfling, Elf or Dwarf would only have an 80% penalty. With this particular combination, I think only a Gnome would be out of luck...and that's assuming the Wizard was a non-specialist Wizard level. But it illustrates the point of how Multiclassing can get out of hand and sting you. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
boring7	Re: beware:	#18	[-]
Posts: 5013 (06/14/02 08:49:41) Ancient Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Multiclassing (ignoring for the moment PrCs) is only decent to powergaming for a character who intends to be a fighter type. A barbarian/fighter gets raging AND a bunch of combat feats (best take iron will though), a rogue/fighter gets sneak attack and other things, a sorceror fighter can use power attack and true strike to do some nasty amounts of damage. Second (but not to be ignored) is the powergaming of a rogue/caster, who can use magic to make up for lack of skill points. A rogue with wieldskill can be very nasty indeed, let alone a psion-rogue with astral construct 1 and ecto-puppet. finally, the many PrC's that are fighter-mage or cleric-mage archetypes. none of these become REAL powerful, but they do have other advantages. A mage 10 cleric 10 hs a lot more spells total, and still has some nice 5th level ones. Still, the best combo is a Munchkin/any class 20/20 (munchkin class doesn't count towards characters total) "You come to a sign, it says 'Pit of Despair: Only the DOOMED beyond this point' what do you do?""huzzah! we stride forth!"
GSFB	Re: beware:	#19	[-]
Posts: 4873 (06/14/02 13:38:31) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	like any situtation, multi-classing depends on many factors. there is no right or wrong. this even holds true for casters with many classes--is a wizard 3, cleric 3, geomancer 10, archmage (or hospitaler!) 4 weak compared to a wizard or cleric 20? and while you may lose out on the highest level spells, having multiple sets of lower level spells can make you more versatile and able to fill a niche better. a wizard 10 cleric 10 can cast any arcane or divine spell level 5 or lower. granted, some multi-class options will leave you weaker than normal. but some will make you more powerful than normal. a monk 1, paladin 1, sorcerer 18 still has his level 9 spells, and a host of other powers. but in comparison, a monk 1, paladin 1, cleric 1, wizard 1, sorcerer 16 has given up level 9 spells for what amounts to little additional gain. or a monk 1, paladin 3, sorcerer 16 is even worse, because now you have the XP penalty to boot! really the only way to answer the question is to directly compare 2 specific examples of straight and multi class. due to the EZ-board screw up, you must add 2,201 to the post total for an accurate count.
Doom Duck	Re: beware:	#20	[-]
Posts: 275 (06/20/02 21:01:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ari, I'll go ahead and post an example (Jase, you might recognize this sucker). Rogue 2/ Ranger 1/ Barbarian 2/ Fighter the rest. Half Elf. I don't see any real problem with him, but others comment that he's more of a "loner" than filling a niche in the group (i.e. tank). Personally, I don't mind anywho, I'll stick with him anyways. I do see how at low levels he may suffer in BAB by a point (Rogues don't get the +1 to BAB in first level) but I think its made up for in versatility, with so many skills. There is a story for it, so no worries about that, but does ye see a problem between that, and say a full Fighter class? Doom Duck

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