Props to you, J/K for your ridiculous amount of devotion to number crunching each and every class!
Modron: I'll host, d3thStaR@rootthief.com
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Modron03 |
Re: 3.5 Power Play | ||
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I have compiled the material to date in a Word file and it is about 47 pages long, even before I can put in a ToC and such. If someone is willing to host, I can email the .doc to them and I'll put up a link in this post.
Props to you, J/K for your ridiculous amount of devotion to number crunching each and every class! Modron: I'll host, d3thStaR@rootthief.com |
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Aurios |
Power Rogue with spellcasting | ||
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I am making a character, and I would like to know the best course of action to make him a power rogue. I want very high backstab, and I want to have good spellcasting abilities... I was thinking rogue/sorc/ranger/arcane trickster, the ranger part for 2 weapon fighting (hand axes). What do you guys recommend? I am starting at 14th level, and what do you think I should do up to 20th level? Any help would be awesome, and I would very much like my character to be able to solo very well, as well as work good in a group. Thanks a ton!
Aurios P.S. Pertaining to race, I was thinking human, what do you guys think? |
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Jackelope King |
Re: Power Rogue with spellcasting | ||
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Welcome to the boards. Read the two sections I posted on rogue and arcane trickster respectively, both should prove helpful to you. And in 3rd Edition, backstab is no more... it is now sneak attack.
I would say take wizard over arcane trickster (more synergy between intelligence than charisma for rogues and wizards, and you'll get spells faster). Drop the ranger levels: they will do nothing for you a little feat investment won't get you otherwise (not worth giving up caster levels and sneak attack for it). Soloing well will be tough because you can't heal yourself, your hit points are low, and your base attack bonus is weak. You're more the guy who skates around the outskirts of a fight blasting away with ray spells. Don't even worry about two weapon fighting: your base attack bonus is already suffering enough that you won't get much out of it anyway. Stay away from melee if at all possible. And if you could, please post your questions in a new thread... I'm trying to keep room in this one to finish off all the core prestige classes. |
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elliott20 |
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I would just like congradulate JK in that his thread on powerplay has spurred discussions on other d&d boards as well. (Most specifically, a couple Chinese D&D boards I visit has read this thread and let's just say that you've caused quite a bit of stir.)
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Jackelope King |
Re: 3.5 Power Play- Blackguard | ||
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Wow... I'm becoming an international sensation. More than I expected out of this thread, but I can't say I'm disappointed in it.
Thanks for the support everyone. I'll be posting the horizon walker power play in a few moments. |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Horizon Walker | ||
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Whats changed?
Brand new class to play with, ladies and gentlemen. Let's get right down to it by emphasizing what it introduces to the whole powergaming thing we're trying to do. - Easy way to get dimension door (at will, even). - Many easy skill bonuses. - Immunity to fatigue is awesome for a barbarian. General tactics Horizon Walkers start out being a so-so class to boost your skills in certain areas, but later blooms to provide extremely powerful abilities you can't get outside spellcasting. Terrain bonuses are generally small, +1 bonuses to attack and damage rolls, enhanced skills, and generally better abilities for the terrain (darkvision for underground, faster swim speed for aquatics, etc.) Desert terrain mastery is great for anyone who can rage. Immunity to fatigue is extremely sweet. You got darkvision? Make it better. The underground terrain mastery is awesome for doubling your darkvision range, making use of ranged weapons very feasable. Shifting planar mastery is insane. Dimension door at will every 1d4 rounds. WOW. Take this ASAP. Fiery and cold planar masteries are nice. You get great resistance to energy and bonuses against creatures of this subtype. Aligned planar mastery is nice, but not great. If you spend a lot of time plane hoping and don't want to get weakened in a strongly aligned plain, but the other ability is only questionably useful against spells. Cavernous planar mastery takes second place for best ability with 30 ft. tremorsense. That is like blindsight so long as your opponents are touching the floor, even in magical darkness. Quite sweet. How far to take this prestige class? This class is fairly good, but don't take more than you need. Most builds will only need one or six levels of this class, so don't worry about filling this class out if you only want a few abilities. What are the basic ways to build an arcane archer? Arcane tricksters can do amazing amounts of damage with a single spell. Your spells of choice will be touch and ranged touch spells so that you can apply sneak attack damage to them to do extremely high amounts of damage. Your other spells depend on your choice of a build. - The Drow Hunter- Master archer of the dark, this dwarven hunter seeks to end the threat of drow to the world. - The Scorched Fist- A heart of evil and a desire to bring total destruction to the celestials. - The Zweihander- He's got a big freaking axe and tons of mobility. Stay on his good side. The Drow Hunter Call me crazy, but them drow gotta die. Let's build us an archer. To start, we've got a dwarf here to take advantage of the darkvision ability he gains. He's tough, no two ways about it. Let's start with our build. We want an archer whose effectiveness revolves around mobility (dimension door... just too sweet to pass up). So let's go ranger 5/fighter 8/horizonwalker 7. Good, clean, and simple. Levels one to five should go ranger/fighter/ranger/fighter/ranger. First, you will get two bonus feats from fighter to sure up your archery skills. You will be able to keep your ranger skills up as well (since your are starting with ranger and your are "capping" your early build with ranger, keeping your early skills high and your skills up to par with high max skill ranks). Favored enemy is obviously drow, and you'll increase this again later on when you take your fifth level of ranger. Ranger level two should grab you rapid shot. Fighter levels early on should grab you weapon focus and precise shot, and you should get point blank shot at level 1 and improved initiative at level 3 (you gotta get the drop on these guys, after all). You should grab forest, hills, marsh, plains, and underground terrain mastery (undergound first). These will give you bonuses to hide, move silently, spot, and listen checks, as well as boosting your darkvision to 120 feet. Later feats should be bow feats like manyshot, improved precise shot, etc. Your level 6 and 7 horizon walker abilities should definitely be shifting planar master and cavernous planar mastery. The former will let you shift your position easily (awesome for a hidden sniper), the latter will ensure that even if you are enshrouded by magical darkness, you can tell where your opponents are if they chose to close. After horizonwalker, finish of 2 levels of ranger (grabbing more favored enemy bonuses against drow), and 6 more levels of fighter (for weapon specialization and greater weapon focus). If you have extra feats to spend, grab defensive feats, or weapon focus in dwarven war axe (great weapon you basically have for free... nice backup if you get into melee). In battle, sneak around while scouting ahead. Take shots at your foes early and fade with dimension door. Don't get into a fair fight... if the drow won't play fair, then neither will you... The Scorched Fist Nothing you can say will spare you from my fury. This is a late-horizon walker build, and provides a neat use of the blackguard prestige class. Why? Because this is a monk build, baby. We've got monk 9/blackguard 4/horizon walker 7. This build again stresses mobility, but moreso than the last build. We will focus on using the quarterstaff as an effective weapon. Our character was once a monk in a LE monastary that often consorted with fiends to acquire new secrets. So the celestials swooped down and leveled the monastary, slaying all the important members and those who resisted, while allowing the younger initiates to live to repent. One monk decided to get his revenge. Our monk will take improved grapple, deflect arrows, and improved trip as his monk feats. We'll need at least a 13 strength to grab power attack, cleave, and improved sunder as his early feats after taking weapon focus in quarterstaff to pull it off. Your feats are tied up in requirements til level 12, but after that point grab diehard (because as a blackguard you can heal yourself) and probably consider something like combat expertise if your armor class isn't quite hight enough. This character has sworn to take out the angels with his abilities, and that's just what he'll do. Using his mobility, this character darts from fight to fight. His horizon walker abilities will buy him the standard stuff along with the aligned ability. This will let your blackguard use his abilities and spells against celestials while protecting himself from similar problems his enemies can wield. If denied his quarterstaff, he can fight unarmed easily, and a monk's belt will give him an added boost very, very easily and cheaply. In battle, this character moves from place to place, providing support in key areas with his high mobility, delivering a power attack where needed. Against other foes, he can stand and flurry as needed, and can deliver smites and sneak attacks as well. Considering his high mobility, this character can take advantage of many opportunities that might be missed by others. And then those damned celestials will pay... The Zweihander Shaman Smash smash smash. All I ever do is smash... Let's get our rage on, baby. Our character is a shaman warrior for his tribe, a knowlegable man who is practiced in the arts of warfare and is still a pasable spellcaster. He is primarily there to support the party, and to lend his huge axe in battle when needed. And when push comes to shove, he can still fly into a rage when needed. Our build is barbarian 4/bard 9/horizon walker 7. The character supports his party through bardic music (primarily shamanist chants and the like) and by providing magical buffs. Aside from the prerequisite endurance, this character is well advised to take advantage of his huge axe with power attack, weapon focus, and the like. Diehard is also nice, especially with access to some cure spells in his host of abilities. Versatility is key for this character: he should be able to support the party where it is needed whenever it is needed. Pick the standard horizon walker abilties, but also grab desert terrain mastery. This build offers us another option: if we go horizon walker light, we can change it to barbarian 4/bard 9/horizon walker 1/eldritch knigh 6. This build gives you 14 effective caster levels of bard while maintaining that nice +17 base attack bonus. Your are primarily a warrior who is able to support himself and his allies with a bit of spellcasting and magical support in the form of bardic music. Spells to grab are spells for versatility and the obvious buff spells. In combat, you are a warrior first and foremost, so don't be afraid to stay near the front lines. Your HD is only slightly worse than a d8 on average, and with a good constitution score and your rage, it is probable comparable to the fighter's HP total. You're good at dealing damage, though your staying power needs your magic to bolster it. Be judicious in using your spells and rages, and make sure to think before going into combat. Just remember that you can rage early, because you won't have to worry about getting tired afterwards. Variations on this idea might use a barbarian/dwarven defender to take advantage of this immunity to fatigue, but for now I'll leave you with this shaman. Conclusion The horizon walker has a few neat abilities that can be used by many different characters to achieve many different ends. If you've ever wanted to be the master traveler, this class is for your. And if you've ever wanted to be the master of mobility, then this class is still for you. Keep moving and hit hard and you'll be doing well. |
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no interference |
Re: 3.5 Power Play- Horizon Walker | ||
Quote: Quote: Both of that is in Horizon Walker. Nice builds though, real nice. Keep in mind though that a monk gains Wholeness of Body at 7th and can heal herself without magic as well. 18 STR, NO INT |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Loremaster | ||
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Whats changed?
The loremaster is largely the same prestige class it ever was, but again make sure you read over your spells to make sure nothing unexpected has changed on you there. General tactics The primary purpose of the Loremaster is to add a few small bonuses to spellcasting characters (like a bonus feat, bonuses to saves, etc.) Lore is a nice little ability that will eventually let you sit down and identify items without casting a spell. Bonus languages are primarily nice if you do a lot of summoning. Being able to order around your creatures is nice. Pick knowledge skills in something appropriate to the campaign. If your DM is big on religious prophesies, grab knowledge (history) or knowledge (religion), or even knowledge (prophecy). Youre the go-to man to know about everything. You have a healthy number of skill points to invest in things that single-classed spellcasters could never invest in. Being able to fall back on some good skills is a very good thing. Since you need item creation of metamagic feats anyway, might as well invest in the good ones, like create wondrous item. How far to take this prestige class? Loremaster is a good, core precursor to another full spellcaster prestige class (such as archmage). The class is overall not exactly powerful, but in exchange for one feat, you gain access to lore, which is a decent ability for any game (from hack & slash dungeon romps to intrigue in the city). What are the basic ways to build a loremaster? The loremaster is there to know everything and be able to take advantage of knowledge to win the day. If this was 3.0, I would say mix this up with the divine oracle (from Defenders of the Faith), but as it stands, the loremaster can make for a very skilled diviner. - The Arcane Explorer- The wizard who treks the multiverse in search of answers to his many questions. - The Oracle- The cleric, and the diviner par-none. Not only can he see it, but he can tell you everything you could ever want to know about it. - The Taleweaver- A caster bard who adventures to learn every story there is. The Arcane Explorer You wonder why I travel ceaselessly. I in turn wonder why you do not. The quintessential adventuring wizard. Hes out there, day and night, to learn about everything there is to know. Hes a historian, a linguist, an anthropologist, and a student of planar exploration. Whenever he finds anything new, he adds it to his multitudinous collection of journals and studies. Our build is going to be wizard 7/loremaster 10/archmage 3. We want to get craft wondrous item and craft wand (free scribe scroll at level 1) as our prerequisite feats for loremaster. Grab skill focus (knowledge arcana) to qualify for both loremaster and archmage. Spell focus in divination and transmutation are the last things we need to qualify for archmage. Now this character is designed to observe and analyze a situation with divinations in advance. The day before hell examine every bit of the dungeon the party wants to raid, learning the layout and positions of enemies. When there, hell be the one conjuring up magical scouts (arcane eyes and the like) and making sure the way is clear for the party. All the while his impressive lore and knowledge will let him identify foes in advance (Well want to use fire against the things up the hall, and whatever you do, dont sneeze!). Remember how the prepared wizard is invincible? Well this guy exemplifies this. Hell never go anywhere without carefully scrying and analyzing the path and the target itself, and once he knows what to expect, hell go in with exactly the correct spells prepared. Id recommend specializing in divination as a wizard and dropping enchantment. The school is decent, but if you hold onto illusion you can still deal with creatures who have weak will saves, and illusions are more difficult to defend against than enchantments. When combat starts, you should already have it well in hand because you know what to expect. Keep speaking with your party and make sure they know what to do. You bring the gift of information to the party, and if we remember the all-important lesson we learned from GI Joe, knowing is half the battle. The Oracle Ive got a bad feeling about this... Just like our wizard friend, this cleric is a diviner. His difference with the wizard is that he is able to handle situations he didnt prepare for. Our build is basically the wizard, except were going to go cleric 7/thaumergist 5/loremaster 8. This character is going to use scouts in addition to simple divinations. Weve sacrificed access to greater lore in the hopes that a planar cohort might be able to tell us a thing or two about things when summoned. Feats of choice here are going to be spell focus (conjuration), skill focus (knowledge the planes), etc. You are going to want to throw out summons early, summoning the most powerful thing you can to handle a specific situation. Before the battle begins, youll again want to scry the area, but instead of preparing a host of deadly spells you will want to prepare the correct summons. Use your planar allies or cohorts to scout an area out carefully, then select the correct summons for the fight. In combat you are playing the role of the HQ communications officer: deploy your special ops planar cohort to the right area. Get information on the enemy. Send out a patrol of blink dogs. And so on and so forth. Make sure you know what youre going into before you set off for another adventure through divinations. You want to be going into an encounter prepared, with the correct spells and summons ready. Your strength is again knowledge: you are forewarned for nearly every encounter. When exploring, try to send a planar cohort out scouting for yourself. The correct one can be an excellent scout, and they are normally intelligent enough to report back with meaningful replies. In the end, your role in the party is the same as the Arcane Explorer: you want to keep your party prepared for whatever encounter is on the way. The Talespinner and if Im not mistaken, Marcob the Great had a scar on his right cheek, not his left." A bard and storyteller of the finest sort, the Talespinner is our last loremaster build. This character is very much a support caster. Between his decent bardic music and his full bardic spell progression (which isnt too shabby), he should be able to make a decent backup spellcaster for the party. Our build is simply bard 9/sorcerer 1/loremaster 10. Bard spells arent exactly top-notch divinations, so something to consider would be taking a single level of wizard or sorcerer in here to fill up on low-level divination spells. Ive chosen sorcerer just because you can easily get 5 easy divination spells, keeping your bard spells free for use later during your development, and you dont miss out on any bardic music you wouldnt be losing to loremaster anyway. Again, the only reason were getting this level of sorcerer is to round out our required divination spells. The lore ability will stack with bard levels, meaning your are absolutely the go-to man to find out anything about anything. Invest some ranks in knowledge (history) to get your lore bonus up to a minimum of +21 (assuming no intelligence modifier) at level 20, which means you will know even the most obscure fact on a roll of 9 or better on your check. You will get inspire courage +2 and inspire greatness, meaning youll have good bardic music abilities. You will have level 19 bardic spellcasting (meaning you lose one spell known and one spell per day). Not too shabby. In combat, you want to support your allies. You can scry like the cleric and wizard, but you lack some of the nicer divinations (like arcane eye), but you can still support your team very well with the rest of your spells. The best part? After combat, youre still a top-notch diplomat and enchanter. Seek information to win the day, then make sure everyone gets the story right afterwards once they all buy you drinks, anways. Conclusion Loremasters certainly arent figures of awesome power, but as an information gatherer and interpreter, they are the best. If you want to play a good diviner, you can do worse than to play a loremaster. |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Mystic Thurge | ||
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Whats changed?
The mystic thurge is not the broken monstrosity it looks like at first glance, and using it to its full potential is actually a fairly decent challenge. - The only core method of combining divine and arcane spellcasting. General tactics The mystic thurge is not the guy who stands center-stage while blasting away with save or die spells. A mystic thurge requires more finesse than the traditional blaster mage. A weaker hit die and base attack bonus progression than the cleric means you won't make for a great melee cleric, so be prepared to use more finesse than most clerics. You are much more fragile than the average cleric with your inability to wear armor, so consider getting the still spell feat to enable to cast armor without arcane spell failure. As a mystic thurge, you have access to a tremendous variety of spells, which means that in any given situation, you are the most likely to have an appropriate magical solution to it. There are a lot of unexplored combos with arcane and divine magic to look for while trying this character. Ever wanted a heal spell as your contingency? Now you can. With two sets of defensive spells, you should be able to count yourself as among the most protected characters on the battlefield. You have access to a huge number of spells per day, making summoning a very nice possibility for you, if you decide to go in that direction. In general, you are less likely to affect foes with your spells than the straight wizard or cleric, so try to support your party with spellcasting instead of focusing on trying to kill off the Big Bad Evil Guy. How far to take this prestige class? You can go all the way through this class and not be wanting for more. However, if you need to cut something short to make your build work, look to bail out of mystic thurge early if you need to, but remember that you are effectively sacrificing two spellcaster levels. What are the basic ways to build a mystic thurge? The mystic thurge brings great flexibility to a character, and coupled with the huge number of spells per day it opens up, it does allow for some interesting builds that aren't afraid to cast 'til the cows come home. - The Gattling Gun- This mystic thurge can lay waste to enemies in huge numbers all day long. - The King of the Dead- Your classic necromancer lord who raises armies of undead to do his bidding. - The True Summoner- A master summoner who always has a friend or two ready to help. The Gattling Gun Diediediediediediediediediediediediedie-. When you have a ton of spell slots at your disposal, bumping up spell slots with metamagic feats becomes less and less costly. This character is designed to make use of metamagic feats to provide some strength otherwise lost from his spellcasting. Our build is very simple: wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic thurge 10/archmage 4. Feats of choice are going to be a bit expensive because of archmage levels, but no worries now that our favorite metamagic rods are core at last. Aside from the prereqs for archmage, we want to invest in spell focus, spell penetration, and the greater versions of each (to keep pace with the single-classed casters and the challenges designed for higher level characters). We also want to take craft rod as a feat so that we can design metamagic rods (such as rods of Empower Spell and Maximize Spell). One metamagic feat to grab though is quicken spell. Normally this isn't a particularly great feat, but the fact that you have so many spell slots to burn means that you could (in theory) fill up all your level 7 spell slots with quickened fireballs and fire off a pair of fireballs in a single round. Same holds true for a barrage of magic missiles. Nothing says "bring on the pain" like 10 magic missiles soaring down your opponent's throat. This character is designed to do damage fast and still be effective after a rapid-fire burst of pain. Between your cleric spells and your other wizard spells, you should still have an effective arsenal. Just be sure to save your burst of spells for when you really need it. Also consider preparing a variety of quickened attack spells to be ready for any situation (though in all honesty, magic missile does cover a wide variety of situations). And want a little extra? Archmage will let you increase your caster level for the purpose of increasing damage dice (to keep up with the straight casters) and will net you some other goodies to use your huge number of spell slots with. However you decide to do it, you'll have an interesting approach to having a ton of spells. The King of the Dead I find the living to be boring anyway. This character is designed to be the ultimate necromancer. 3.0 tried with the true necromancer class from Tome & Blood, but in all honesty it wasn't too great of a class. Our character is designed to be able to raise the dead and bolster his legions of the dead all day long, and is designed to be entirely self-sufficient. The build will be cleric 3/wizard 3/mystic thurge 10/loremaster 4. What we are trying to create is someone who knows all there is to know about the undead, and will always be able to raise more allies whenever he needs to. Feats of choice for this character are obviously our prerequisite feats for loremaster (probably including extend spell and craft wondrous item), and we will also want to grab extra turning. For one thing, if you have access to divine feats from Defenders of the Faith or the new Complete Warrior, this opens the door for an expansion of your character's abilities. Regardless, you will be grabbing death and evil for your cleric domains. These two domains will give you access to the necromancy spells you need to create undead and your evil domain will give you the power to bolster your undead forces. As a character warning, DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH PALADINS OR GOOD CLERICS. You are going to be spending a lot of time bringing undead into the world, and few good characters will approve of this. Anywhoo, during combat your role is to go around animating the corpses of fallen enemies. At all times youll want to keep a sizeable army in place (a retinue of two or so more powerful undead with maybe five or six skeletons at all times). Youll definitely use the spell major creation to save yourself the 25 gp youd otherwise need to create the gems to use the animate dead spell. Loremaster is netting us a pair of secrets and will let us advance wizard or cleric spellcasting as needed. If you get into a fight, spend your time buffing your undead with cleric spells, and removing dangerous foes as best you can to clear the way for your hordes. Just remember that any enemy who falls is another potential member for your undead army. The True Summoner An entire army awaits my call to crush you, body and soul." While the King of the Dead has an army around him at all times, the True Summoner can conjure one up in a few short rounds. Our build switches up a bit to druid 5/wizard 3/mystic thurge 10/druid 2 (in that order). This build opens up with a decent bit of druid strength, and closes in such a way that it allows to wildshape 3 times per day into a small or medium animal. Feats of choice here are going to allow us to conjure up powerful summoned creatures from relative safety. Spell focus (conjuration), augmented summoning, natural spell, and extend spell are all choice feats here. The first two will buy you much stronger summons. Natural spell will let you summon creatures as an animal yourself. Extend spell is nice because it keeps your summons around longer. If you can, your druid spells should be used entirely to prepare utility spells while your wizard spells should prepare summons and a few nice offensive or defensive spells. When combat starts, you want to get into an innocuous-looking animal form (riding dog is particularly nice here nobody suspects that big, slobbering lab of being a dangerous spellcaster). Then start spitting out the summons. Sacrifice some druid spells to throw out spontaneous summons and toss out a summon monster spell or two. Maintain about four summons on the field at all times, which should enable you to keep control over the battlefield at all times. Help friendly melee-types by flanking, and conjuring up temporary bodyguards for allied casters. If you can get a rod of quicken spell, being able to spit out a high-level summon spell in the blink of an eye is an excellent way to deal with a suddenly dangerous situation. And dont forget that you have a healthy number of attack spells from your wizard spell list that will enable you to deal with foes in a more direct way if you need to. Conclusion The mystic thurge is all about versatility. You sacrifice specialization in a single caster type to gain skill in casting two entirely different spell lists. This is not for the blaster mage character: the mystic thurge is a more support-oriented caster. And when played as such, you are able to cover a wide variety of roles needed to keep the party going and strengthen the group as a whole. |
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no interference |
Re: 3.5 Power Play | ||
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Erm...can't you only quicken one spell per round? Also, you can no longer quicken anything with a casting time longer than 1 full-round action...1 round is longer than that, correct?
18 STR, NO INT |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Shadowdancer | ||
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Please note that since the Red Wizard is not Open Gaming Content, I am not covering it in the Power Play at this time.
Whats changed? The shadowdancer is an absolutely great class for anyone looking to design a good scout. The class has been slightly weakened (loses out on a bonus to what is now trap sense +1). - Lose out on a +1 bonus to reflex save vs. traps. - Hide in plain sight is slightly easier to come by in 3.5, making it a bit less appealing. General tactics You are a scout that comes with some pre-built backup in the form of your summoned shadows. You are probably going to be the best scout in the party when it comes to sheer stealth abilities. Dont neglect to hide and use your stealth to get to places your party needs to get to. You have a very decent set of skills and abilities, but remember you lose out on the troubleshooting skills of the rogue (like disable device and open lock). Dont neglect on rogue levels in this build if your party needs you for these things. Shadow illusion is a great ability. You effectively have the spell silent image once per day, which means you always have a distraction or a temporary ally on-hand. If you have rogue levels, dont forget that you will definitely have at least a few flanking partners, making sneak attack really easy to get. On a similar note, be careful not to send your shadows out into too dangerous a situation. Theyre like familiars, and if they die, youre in a world of pain. They are fairly durable with their ability to ignore 50% of attacks that hit them, but their relatively low HP and poor AC dont mix well with melee combat unless youre fighting foes equipped with non-magical weapons. If there are other sneak-attackers in your group, definitely use your shadows to help them by flanking early and often if you can manage it. But again, be careful with your shadows. Shadow jump is the crème-de-la-crème of your class abilities. With it, youll be a highly mobile party member at all times. How far to take this prestige class? This class develops in goodness as it goes on, but it can certainly be bailed out of early to make way for a more mobile or more focused scout class. You can go through all ten levels of this class and have a good build, but using it as a quick qualification for Telmfar Shadowlord or the like can work as well. What are the basic ways to build an shadowdancer? This class is about stealth and mobility, while retaining versatility at all times throughout the build. - The Darkstalker- An assassin/shadowdancer who carries his own portable hiding place at all times. - The Night Lord- A more martial shadowdancer who uses the shadows as a cover for his shadowy work. - The Roof-Runner- The urban thief who has learned every nook and cranny of the city. The Darkstalker A dagger in the dark is always the best solution. The problem for rogue shadowdancers is that they are going to miss out on sneak attack progression. To alleviate this, well get a healthy amount of sneak attack in advance, at the front of the build. Well be going rogue 5/assassin 5/shadowdancer 10. This build will give us a decent +12 base attack bonus, and we will be relying primarily on making single deadly attacks to deal damage here. The shadowdancer has all the requirements to spring attack as prerequisites for the class, so why not go for it? Our feats are going to be combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, spring attack, weapon focus, and weapon finesse. Weapon focus and weapon finesse will get a lot of mileage out of a rapier or the like if we use that for our main weapon, and darting into and out of flanking positions can be quite deadly. Furthermore, the ability to hide in plain sight means that you can just step into the shadows, hide, then spring out next turn to sneak attack a lone foe anyway. In a pinch, you can throw your shadows into the fray for a flanking partner. In combat, your role is to harass specific foes, striking until they die, then moving on. You definitely lack the staying power to remain in melee, and your full attack isnt exactly great, so spring attack is a very attractive option. If you can, nail an enemy with a weak fortitude save (like an enemy wizard) with your death attack at the opening of combat to reduce the effectiveness of the enemy side. You have a few little spells that can be most helpful (the spell darkness is an instant hiding spot for you, for example), and most importantly your shadow familiars can be absolutely deadly combat allies if you treat them carefully. A favored tactic is to have them all act at once, flanking an enemy and all delivering strength-draining touch attacks at once after drifting out of the floor. Very nasty when you use the opportunity to hide and prepare for a death attack on that foe The Night Lord It is the dark I yearn for, the dark which gives me strength. Shadowdancer actually works better as a ranger multiclass than a rogue multiclass simply because the abilities stack so darn well. This guy is a nasty and self-sufficient scout-type who is almost as deadly alone as he is in a party. Our build is ranger 6/fighter 4/shadowdancer 10, which will give us the better part of the ranger two-weapon fighting combat style and weapon specialization. This build is a bit feat-intensive, but not overly so. In addition to our prerequisite feats, we want to invest in combat expertise, improved trip, weapon focus (guisarme), weapon focus (shortsword), weapon specialization (guisarme), weapon specialization (shortsword), and quick draw. Most of the time, this guy just lies in wait for a foe to stumble by. When he finds a foe, he shadowjumps in nice and close and commences tripping the foe mercilessly and slashing away with his guisarme. If the foe somehow survives and manages to close, the Night Lord can easily abandon his guisarme and quick draw out a pair of shortswords, maintaining a healthy fighting style even when somebody gets inside the reach of his guisarme. If things get too dangerous, call for help from your shadows and hide somewhere. Step back and prepare to jump back in once you have your bearings again. If you can afford it, invest in spring attack to allow you to hop about the battlefield tripping foes left and right. Shadows further support this build because most foes will oppose your trip attempt with their strength, and if thats gone the way of the dodo, well then tripping becomes just that much easier. Want to make it nastier? If you have a good druid in the party, get a wolf animal companion. Those things can trip any time they hit with a bite attack, which means even more trippy goodness if you can get some help buffing it from somebody. The Roof-Runner Oh yeah? Well youll have to catch me first! Ill be honest: the idea of being a very acrobatic thief darting through a city he knows like the back of his hand to be very cool. And I see the potential to pull it off with a bard build. Well be going bard 6/fighter 2/arcane archer 2/shadowdancer 10. This will give us a respectable +15 base attack bonus and the building blocks we need to grab shot on the run and many shot. Very little room for flexibility with feats here, unfortunately. We need to develop the character with this build order and with feats in this order for the character to work: bard 1/fighter 1/bard 5/fighter 2/arcane archer 2/shadowdancer 10. Feats need to go point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus (longbow), dodge, combat reflexes, mobility, rapid shot, many shot, shot on the run. To remain effective throughout play, you are relying on the arcane archer ability to put your enchantment spells down in the middle of low-level enemies, putting them to sleep or hypnotizing them with a specially prepared arrow of sleep. In combat, you want to be moving very quickly around the battlefield while plinking away with arrows. You primarily want to engage weaker enemies, making you ideal for clearing the way for the barbarian to charge the Big Bad Evil Guy and beat the living daylights out of him, or providing cover fire for your wizard friend to toast the Big Bad Evil Guy. Your shadows will be greatly helpful here, especially if you can direct them to defend a weaker party member or to pin down a target for you. Regardless, your stealth abilities make you a prime candidate for the party scout, and you are uniquely suited to perform a fighting withdraw, popping within range then backing off with your shadows covering your retreat. So long as you keep moving, you shouldnt have any trouble keeping your foes off-balance, so your friends can panel-beat them into a gooey paste. Conclusion The shadowdancer is a neat class that is all about mobility, stealth, and always having support, making it the ideal scout class. You have a versatile set of skills all revolving around moving easily and sneakily (is that even a word?) through even the most dangerous area. Stay fast and stay hidden. Then you can deal some pain out |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Thaumaturgist | ||
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Whats changed?
A brand new class that exists for the purpose of making a summoner cleric viable and powerful. - A core method of making using the planar ally spell extremely effective. General tactics You are never alone. Even when separated from the rest of the party or stuck in another plane, you can summon an ally up and have a helpful brute. You are built to be a summoner pure and simple. Your job is to flood the battlefield with powerful allies to tip the scales in your favor. Your summons automatically last twice as long as normal, so dont hesitate to throw them out early as preparation for combat. Odds are you will have good caster levels, so dont forget that you are more than capable of throwing out a normal array of spells to support your allies. A meat shield is never more than a single spell away. Investing in leadership is always a good idea, especially when your cohort can be a high-roller from the fifth layer of hell. With cleric levels, you are extremely good at buffing allies and yourself up, meaning you can make your summoned allies very powerful indeed. A summon spell on contingency can basically mean you have the same near-invulnerability that even a high-level wizard has. How far to take this prestige class? This class is almost always taking five full levels of, though if you want to bail out early, either jumping off at level 3 or 4 is a fair choice. What are the basic ways to build an thaumaturgist? Being a thaumaturgist is all about being a good summoner, or at least a caster who can put summoning to good use. - The Baatezu Keeper- An evil cleric who works in close tandem with his fiendish ally. - The Field Marshal- A battle cleric whose army is always on call and is always ready to do battle with evil. - The Shaman- Calling forth otherworldly spirits, this stealthy cleric protects the lands of his people. The Baatezu Keeper My pet and I will drink from your skull tonight! Okay we all know that clerics can make pretty good fighters with proper preparation. So how about we work on making him absolutely deadly in efficiency with a little hired help in the form of a devil? Lets just go for a classic cleric build, going cleric 15/thaumaturgist 5. The absolute earliest level you can get a planar cohort is level 12, so the maximum ECL of a critter you can make your cohort at this point is a measly 10. Work with your DM to pick an effective critter to work with. Make sure you pick an ally that compliments your own strengths. If you are willing to wait until level 14, you can get a bearded devil companion, who can do healthy damage, strike up a rage, and avoid the problem of his relatively weak armor and hit points by stabbing over the shoulder of any allied tanks in the party. At level 16 you can have an erinyes join the party, whose flight, archery, and charm abilities coupled with excellent stats makes for a strong ally. A chain devil makes for a good tank, thanks in large part to his regeneration ability, though as a cleric healing isnt really an issue for your allies. I personally feel that the erinyes makes for the most valuable ally, coupling a bit of spellcasting with good long-range archery support. Whichever pet you chose, make sure you develop a combat style that compliments it. If your ally uses a reach weapon, consider building a heavy tank cleric who focuses on defense to form a wall for your ally to attack over. If you have a flying ally, definitely consider getting your cleric a ranged weapon and access to some sort of flying spell. Other than that, do not forget that first and foremost you are a good summoner: call more allies to help if things ever start looking bad. And remember that if you have a demon or devil cohort, your cohort is probably a summoner too, able to summon up a bit more support if things go bad. All in all, you should be able to make a pretty brutal team if you just remember to work with your cohort as much as possible. The Field Marshal I pray not for war, but I wont run from battle either. Now on the good side, weve got us the field marshal. This cleric is a cleric of war and battle. He summons allies with use of his superior tactical knowledge to give himself and his party every advantage. Again, were going cleric 15/thaumaturgist 5. Just to switch things up, this cleric is a double-purpose multitasker on the battlefield. On one hand, he is a great mounted fighter. On the other, he is excellent at providing magical support to his allies, using the mobility of his mount to take advantage of opportunities others might miss. With some investment in the mounted combat tree (mounted combat, ride-by attack, spirited charge) he is able to deal healthy damage by charging enemies in melee if needed. If possible, take the war domain and try to pick a deity with the lance as a favored weapon. This clerics true prowess comes from setting down summoned allies in the correct places on the battlefield. Throwing down spells like bless to enhance summoned creatures and your own party can be a huge help. Although you are a good mounted fighter, you should refrain from charging at the first sign of trouble. Your job is to prep the battlefield and your party for an encounter, making sure your side has the upper-hand. If you can solve an encounter through one quick charge, then by all means do so! However, always make sure you analyze a situation before deciding on one course of action. Saving spells for a later fight is a good idea, but not if it means your party wont live through this one. Try to develop a fine sense of when a summoned ally is needed and when it would be wasteful. If youre fighting one big foe, putting down a summoned ally or two is good for a few temporary meat shields, leaving room for you to start charging him. For a planar cohort, consider a celestial unicorn. Not only will you have a top-notch mount, but your mount will be an impressive healer and fighter in his own right. The Shaman The spirits of this land keep us safe. Now lets put together a summoner who not only summons some pretty powerful allies, but can buff and support them extremely well. This old cleric 12/thaumaturgist 5/hierophant 3 is a pretty effective character (and if you have access to divine feats, even more than ever). He does little fighting himself, relying instead on his summoned allies to do his work for him. If trouble arises, he calls on his planar cohort (a half-celestial human fighter) to go fight. With his hierophant abilities used to grab faith healing, spellpower +1, and gift of the divine, he can quickly turn his cohort into a deadly fighting machine. Using the spell imbue with spell ability, the shaman can even turn his cohort into a passable spellcaster for the purpose of buffing himself (with an animal buff, divine favor, and shield of faith, maybe). If you have access to divine feats, this is an enormous boon for this pair, as the shaman can give his cohort use of a turn dead to power the feat (though it might require the cohort to take levels of paladin or cleric first ) Faith healing is nice because many of your summoned allies (who you should be careful to select) will be easily healed thanks to this ability. The shaman can basically sit back and be a pure spellcaster while his cohort takes on the fighter aspect of his job. Together, the two of them are a very effective team, only this time it is the player who takes the support role for his younger and much more physically able cohort. And coupled with his own summoning abilities, he is more than able to conjure up an effective team to support his cohort, then further support them with his near-full cleric spellcasting. DMs, an interesting twist on the old leadership thing might be to make the player the cohort instead of the NPC, and playing a summoned extraplanar warrior could be very interesting for a change of pace. Conclusion The thaumaturgist is a class meant to make a cleric into a good summoner who can use the planar ally spells with greater ease. If you like playing a cleric and you like summoning, this class is for you. The trick is just to learn when to use your spells (as all spellcasters must). Things are just a little more difficult for a thaumaturgist, who must balance his summoning spells with his other duties. |
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Jackelope King |
3.5 Power Play- Closing Thoughts | ||
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So that's it. I've looked at 3.5 core and shown you 99 different character concepts. And that is just the core rules. Already in 3.5 there is plenty of material out there just waiting to be used.
I've tried to show two things throughout this thread. The first is that even with minimal sources for building a character, you can create a deadly-effective character. The second is that even a character built for power can be an interesting character too. Power When you are trying to make a concept work, look for classes, abilities, and feats that can come together to support one another and lend themselves to create an effective character. Try to look at a character type from new angles, too. We all know the mounted paladin charger, but a mounted barbarian charger is something a bit fresher, and his rage can make his charges just as nasty as a paladin's smite can. Also remember that that the key to maximizing a non-caster character will usually be multiclassing. If you have a DM who doesn't allow multiclassing or puts restrictions on it, you can still make an effective non-caster, but you will be more and more limited. While in general a fighter who multiclassed at level 6 will probably be better off than a fighter who went straight fighter 20, there is no definite and clear rule on multiclassing. Finally, be sure you pick your feats well. Try to maintain your focus on your concept of choice, but do not forget to sure up some of the weaknesses of your build. You could be the best charger in the world, but if you try to charge that dragon when your armor class is only 15 and your saves are pushing a mighty +5 at best, it's time to re-examine your build. Be careful not to go so overboard in multiclassing or chosing feats that you completely neglect to look at the basics of your character (such as base attack bonus). You can skimp on some things, but be careful you don't cripple your character at the start because your fancy build got carried away and left you with a +7 BAB at level 20. Character All of the characters I outlined in this thread are all based off of a concept. I tried to capture the essence of what the build was in a short little title and a quote. I also tried to include some hints as to what the character was designed to do. In the end, other people really can't make a character for you. The best I (or anyone else) can do is help you with the mechanical end, then maybe give suggestions on personality or attitude. Some of these characters came across with a little personality all their own, and even with their own character histories. But if your character is just a bunch of numbers, it's really boring. This is why every character I created started as a concept, not the realization that class A + class B + feat X would be really really good. Sure, I've done characters like that, but most of the characters I've been most pleased with have been the ones that started with an interesting concept and grew in power from careful analysis and examination of the different ways to achieve that concept. And just as often as I've created a seemingly good build from level 1 to 20 have I second-guessed myself and constantly adjusted my build as the character changed and grew. In the end, nobody can tell you how to handle the actual character you're building except for you. All I can tell you is to start out with a concept and remain true to it as long as you can. In The End... So that's about it. Maybe some time in the future I'll post some more of these, or maybe I'll try to get Jim to put them on the main page as a series of articles. I'm not leaving 3ebb any time soon, so at the very least I plan on hanging around and helping people when I can with character development. And whether you love it or loathe it, I'll keep sticking my two cents in about powergaming. If you need help with a build, just keep posting here on 3ebb. I'll be around for a long while, even if I'm not posting in this particular thread. Special Thanks Before I finish, I've got at least a few people I need to thank for making this possible. In no particular order, I would like to thank DethStarDriveBy (for his mod-ly help in keeping this thread pruned and stickied), no interfernce (for always letting me bounce build ideas off of him, and for being my unofficial lacky), Aranan (for the moral support of Oolong and being an emergency-backup person to bounce ideas off of), Jim and Becca (for starting 3ebb and keeping it going for so long), Malvolence (AKA VorpalMoose; for spreading and transcribing this thread over at his boards at Critical Hit!), darken, dreams of lost daylight, and every other 3ebb rules lawyer (for helping me learn the rules in the first place), and everyone who's read, posted suggestions, or just gave a bit of praise for this thread (I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as I did without the support). At the time I'm posting this, the 3.5 Power Play has been viewed 9,201 times at 3ebb alone, and is a topic of discussion on other message boards. This project became much bigger than I ever would've guessed when I started it back in August. It's been a long, strange trip. But I'd be lying if I didn't say it was fun. |
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skovzzt |
Re: 3.5 Powerplay Bard | ||
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taking the Spell singer PrC from "Races of Faerun" is an huge asset to the support bard, your bardic music continues to increase, and so does your spells. so essentially, its the same as taking a lvl of bard, but it makes your songs harder to resist (add class lvl to perform checks involving bardic music, this includes dc for suggestion)
so, the best bard you can do, imo, would be bard 13/spell singer 5/holy liberator 2 this would give insane saves fort ref will 10 16 19 + divine grace Min Philosophi har derfor den fortinlige Egenskab, at den er kort, og at den er uimodsigelig; thi dersom Nogen siger mig imod, saa turde jeg vel have Ret i at erklære ham for gal.
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Moridin Shadar |
Re: 3.5 Power Play- Hierophant | ||
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I haven't been reading the post that weren't part of the actual Power Play articles so someone might have suggested this....
I'd like to see you continue to do this for other major releases with other classes and Prestige Classes in them such as Complete Warrior and the Miniatures Handbook...I however know this would take a dreadfully long time (with all the Prestige Classes in Complete Warrior)... "Well look on the bright side, you're...uh...covered in urine" |
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Gorath |
Re: 3.5 Power Play- Horizon Walker | ||
Quote: A barbarian multiclassing into dwarven defender does not seem like a good idea: as one of the prerequisites for the dwarven defender is a lawful alignment, the barbarian will loose his ability to rage. "The Dutch own football." |
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Laguna |
The future? | ||
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JK, nicely done. One question. Seeing as how you didn't do the Red Wizard because it wasn't open game content, are you planning on doing a Power Play for new classes and PrCs in the Miniatures Handbook and the Complete Warrior?
What the deuce are you staring at? It's tuna fish... and nothing else! |
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Jackelope King |
Re: Power Rogue with spellcasting | ||
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If I do stuff from the Minis HB or Complete Warrior (or ever get around to doing the Red Wizard), it will be entirely on an individual basis. It took me almost 5 months to do the core stuff, so I'm in no hurry to dive in to do the dozens of PrCs and classes introduced in those two books any time soon. Though I have been toying around with hexblade and dervish builds a bit recently...
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treehouse916 |
Re: A question on the Assassin builds | ||
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Excellent thread, JK. I'm sure this will be stickied for a long time...however...
Quote: So...it wasn't fun? _____________________________________________________________________________
Moderate your tone for friendliness, and I won't moderate your face for ugliness. Current Geek rating - 25.24655% and rising "What is a 'Wal-Mart'?.....is it a store where you buy walls?" -Paris Hilton |
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Thalantor |
Re: . | ||
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Ha! What honor for me to be able to lock this thread on 100 posts.
I'll keep it stickied here until I (or another mod) hears of a PDF or word doc that was mad and up for download of this wonder piece of writing. I also think the existence of this piece should be leaked to other sites such as ENworld. Good for publicity, n'est pas? Good work, JK. "I live in Limburg, so that prolly makes Thally more interesting." - LeeCHeSSS - Need an edit, lock, warning, answer or a role model? Mail to Thalantor@3rdedition.org for all your moderating needs. (Disclaimer: This is primarily meant for the Community Center and the D&D software section. The rest can go to Canada.) |
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