Yuku free message boards

My compliments for some genuine and sincere work and effort here. However, I can't agree that this is the "way to go" with revising Rangers, and my preference leans more towards Monte Cook's variant, with standard PHB (Rather than advanced) spell advancement, putting the bonus feats "to the 5s" rather than "to the 3s", and a shift in the bonus feat list (remarkably similar to your own, with a * of waiting on MotW for added bonus feats).

You've drawn an analogy of Cleric -> Paladin as Druid -> Ranger. But if you look at it"

Paladins get limited Cleric spells (sorta)
Rangers get limited Druid spells (sorta)
Paladins get Turn Undead
Rangers get Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step and Resist Nature's Lure.

As well, I'm none too keen on how far you've taken the uncanny dodge. I think I'd be ok with it if you just left off the +1 vs Traps.

I personally think that Favored Enemy is a tool for a DM and player to work together to develop the campaign. Everyone else who has posted on this topic seems to be taking it from the point of view of a DM who's "out to get" their players, and hose each out of their respective powers. I, for one, would consider a Ranger's "Favored Enemy" race(s) as a good opportunity to push their buttons and give them motivations...especially as they grow in levels and get a broader list to work from.

(Everyone sees it as horrendously limiting...but really. Beasts, Magical Beasts, Aberrations, Demons, Dragons...a DM would have to work to AVOID having these come up. And no Paladin complains how useless their Turn Undead is when there's no Undead around, now do they?)

Un-frontloading the race is a wonderfully noble act, and that seems to be the first thing any variant on Rangers does (as well it should). It seems popular to put off the 2nd feat until around 4th to 5th, which is when the Ranger starts getting spells (ie, starts getting interesting).

As for the controversial save issue, I personally feel that Rangers ought to have the improved Reflex save. Then again, I also feel that Paladins should have an improved Will save and were hosed over there by not receiving one.

However, there is a compromise if you don't mind being a bit unconventional. Wheel of Time RPG has "medium" saves, that vary from 1 to 9, instead of 0-6 and 2-12. You might consider giving the Ranger a "medium" Reflex save and see if that settles the conflicts (whilst I tuck a "medium" Will save into my Paladin list).

All in all, some good effort put forth here, even if it's not what I'm looking for. Cudos for the effort you have put forth.

Paladins get Turn Undead

and detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands, divine health, aura of courage, remove disease, smite evil, and special mount.

all divine abilities, all specialized to what a paladin does best.

EXACTLY. All Specialized to the Paladin. These are not Clerical powers, they are Paladin abilities. My complaint is not that Paladins lack for special abilities, but that the alternate Ranger, as writ, is too much of a direct-line ripoff of the Druid, and should have more abilities that are unique to the Ranger, not just a shortcut to not bother with multi-classing with Druid.


I don't think it is an issue of outpowering/outshining...but I would rather see a Ranger have more uniqueness within itself, and leave the Ranger/Druid as a viable multi-class that doesn't make itself utterly redundant.