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New Feat - Martyrs Grace

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TechOgre	New Feat - Martyrs Grace	Lead	[-]
Posts: 15 (07/17/03 11:35:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Martyrs Grace [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Paladin 5 Benefit: You get a Sacred bonus to AC from Charisma and Wisdom, however, you may not wear armour. Special: This is for the Order of Martyrs, a small order of Paladins that renouce wearing armour, relying on their faith for protection. Does this look like a balanced feat?
Farnsworth	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#1	[-]
Posts: 479 (07/17/03 12:24:29) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	First thing, it is not a general feat if it requires you to be a paladin, it would then be a paladin feat. You may want to make the prerequisite something like the ability to lay hands at least once per day. It also seems as though the character must be accepted into the "Order of the Martyrs", which would be an additional prerequisite. Second, the feat needs to be more specific. I take it to mean the following: A character who takes the Martyrs Grace feat is allowed to add both his Charisma and Wisdom modifiers to his AC. These bonuses only apply if the character is wearing no armor. Is the feat broken, well, being able to add 3 separated ability modifiers to your armor class does seem a bit broken to me. Especially after you start adding magical bonuses in, but the real question is does it unbalance your game. In otherwords, is this character now going to out shine the rest of the players? That is up to you. *Quote:* Farnz, its moments like these that I just want to say.... What the HECK are you talking about???
kennokishi	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#2	[-]
Posts: 1627 (07/17/03 13:40:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Too much. Either Charisma or Wisdom, not both. Look at the several prestige classes with similar abilities: the Duelist and the Mystic Wanderer or something similar are two that come to mind. Each only gives one stat bonus to AC. Limit this to one, or possibly incorporate it in to a Paladin prestige class. A gentleman is simply a patient wolf. -Lana Turner
Journeyman	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#3	[-]
Posts: 452 (07/17/03 15:06:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Cool concept. I'll follow the trend and suggest you change it to one stat or another, not both added together. -------- When life gives you lemons, make a ranged attack roll. 1d2 sudual damage x2 crit 10 ft range
Doom Duck	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#4	[-]
Posts: 275 (07/17/03 20:36:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd follow the trend and say one or the other. Especially since both are Stats a Paladin wants to have at a decent level anyways. . . though at times it seems like Paladins want to have every stat at a decent level. But that's neither here nor there. ~Doom Duck
TechOgre	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#5	[-]
Posts: 15 (07/18/03 05:34:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I want to introduce a new Paladin group, The Order of Martyrs. My first thought (Option #1) was to create a single special feat available only to the Order of Martyrs. This was (as you can see above) and error. Option #2, break it out into two feats: Pilgrams Grace [PALADIN] Prerequisite: +4 BAB, Ability to Turn Undead, Ability to Lay-On-Hands, member of the Order of Martyrs Benefit: A character who takes the Pilgrams Grace feat is allowed to add his Charisma modifiers to his as a Sacred AC bonus. This bonus only applies if the character is wearing no armor or shield. Martyrs Grace [PALADIN] Prerequisite: +8 BAB, Pilgrams Grace Benefit: A character who takes the Martyrs Grace feat is allowed to add both his Wisdom and Charisma modifiers as a Sacred AC bonus. These bonuses only apply if the character is wearing no armor or shield. This feat replaces Pilgrams Grace. Option #3 - Create a new PrC that includes these feats as class features. Option #2 would be easier to add to the game, would be balanced by the Paladin not wearing armor, and he would have to use one or two feats to get this. Thanks to everyone who has made suggestions so far!
Utgardloki	Giving up armor	#6	[-]
Posts: 2825 (07/25/03 21:01:32) Great Wyrm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, the character is giving up armor. Does this include magic items that grant an AC bonus, such as Bracers of Defense? Perhaps a person who takes these feats can only use sacred items or items blessed by the sect. I think that with the restriction of no armor, and the fact that these feats are designed for characters proficient in heavy armor, that means that to get a bonus of +1 to +something (depending on what the stat is) the character has to give up +1 to +8 of armor bonus, and +1 to +5 of possible enhancement bonus on this armor. I think it would work breaking the feat up into two. The first would be roughly equivalent to the armor that the character could be wearing. The second would be roughly equivalent to the magical enhancement bonus on the armor the character could be wearing. But I think I'd also require the character to give up magic items that enhance AC, unless blessed by the Order of Martyrs, which would require some degree of effort. Maybe a third feat. The first two would be as they were, and also require forsaking magical items that protect AC. (Spells are still okay.) The third feat would not add a bonus, but would allow the character to undergo a ritual of blessing a magical item so he could use it for protection.
Shock	Re: Giving up armor	#7	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/26/03 11:11:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	At that point, you're spending 3 feats to get back to where someone who just wears armor is getting. I would just restrict anything that gives an armor bonus. And where does a shield fit into this? Is it allowed? If not, thats another huge restriction. Shock
Psionic Dwarf	Re: Giving up armor	#8	[-]
Posts: 5210 (07/26/03 19:28:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	tech ogre. i like the concept and i think its executed nicely in option #2. it is not broken. if you want AC without armor you could just as easily make a psionic monk with the prestige class duelist and inertial armor (or simply incarnate ectopasmic armor) and get a big AC without wearing armor. that would give dex, int and wis to AC, as well as the +4 or +10 from psionic... bah. Murder is just an extroverted suicide. 3.5 spell changes...
Scooter	Re: Giving up armor	#9	[-]
Posts: 2330 (07/28/03 11:13:57) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think that if you plan on making a PrC called "The Order of Martyrs" you should simply make this a class ability that includes the phrase: "When the character is wearing no armor and is using no Armor Class enhancing items . . ." If you're dead set on keeping this a feat that other paladins can use, I'd include the same phrase. "It's th' rich folks, they start all the wars - then yell for us poor folks to come do their dying for them." --Woody Guthrie
sirtaylsdm	Re: Giving up armor	#10	[-]
Posts: 7150 (07/28/03 17:55:22) ADHD Teacher Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i agree with the ideas of a Prestige Class. This feat sounds great with some modifications for a PrC. For a general paladin feat (or fighter's feat, or the like) it is way out of balance. The Order of Martyrs is a good way to go with this taylor I am your father, Luke. Give in to the dark side of the force, you knob.
TechOgre	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace v2.0	#11	[-]
Posts: 15 (08/04/03 09:35:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here are the new revised versions: Pilgrams Grace [DIVINE] Prerequisite: DEX 14, +4 BAB, Ability to Turn Undead, Ability to case divine spells Benefit: A character who takes the Pilgrams Grace feat is allowed to add his Charisma modifiers to his as a Sacred AC bonus. This bonus only applies if the character is wearing no armor or shield. Special: Something that makes you lose your dexterity modifier also makes you lose this bonus as well. If a character has a similar ability to add charisma to his armor class, this bonus does not stack. Martyrs Grace [DIVINE] Prerequisite: WIS 14, CHA 14, +8 BAB, Pilgrams Grace Benefit: A character who takes the Martyrs Grace feat is allowed to add both his Wisdom and Charisma modifiers as a Sacred AC bonus. These bonuses only apply if the character is wearing no armor or shield. This feat replaces Pilgrams Grace. Special: Something that makes you lose your dexterity modifier also makes you lose this bonus as well. If a character has a similar ability to add wisdom or charisma to his armor class, this bonus does not stack (example: the monk ac bonus).
Ravenburgh	Wording Issue...	#12	[-]
Posts: 33 (08/04/03 12:46:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Martyrs Grace [Divine] ...This feat replaces Pilgrams Grace. Just to make sure, since I'm not trying to be overly picky, but does the wording here seem to indicate to anyone else that the Pilgriums Grace feat slot opens up again? My issue is with the word "replace." "Supercede" may be a better term, since Pilgrim's Grace is a Prereq for Martyr's and its assumed you wouldn't add it twice from the Special note. If this is the standard wording for feats of this kind, I apologize for being a nitpicky git, but I want to make sure you don't have anyone trying to claim otherwise.
TechOgre	Re: Wording Issue...	#13	[-]
Posts: 15 (08/05/03 12:29:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmmm.... Me fail english, that unpossible. You are correct and it will be changed. No "gittness" is taken or read.
Looking for Buddha	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#14	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/05/03 15:17:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Very Interesting Idea, but over powered. Three stat bonus to AC is too much. Pick either Wisdom or Chr, not both. Have you considered making these martyr folks into a Prestige Class? That would make more sense to me than a feat. Make this (in a toned down version)a special ability of a PrC, and you could further develope their special powers, personality, special oaths, etc.
AydrianWyndon	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#15	[-]
Posts: 6 (08/06/03 21:24:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	3 bonuses to AC isnt overpowered for a pure melee class giving up as much as a +22 AC bonus from armor and shield (and then some special abilities on the gear) that doesnt have great access to skills with armor check penalties (like tumble, so on and so forth)... your AC with the best bracers of armor you can find and very high dex, cha, and wis probably wont go over 30, which is comparable to the best shield/armor combos you find (a little less but then you can use two-handed swords). If this order of paladins has other special abilities, a prestige class would probably be best. If the rest of the info about that order of paladins is just flavor text, their mission, and so on but nothing that impacts game rules, keeping them as feats would be a fine way to do it... particularly if you know which of your PCs would want to join and can keep an eye on it that way.
TechOgre	Re: New Feat - Martyrs Grace	#16	[-]
Posts: 15 (08/08/03 07:49:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, I only have one Paladin (level 5, almost 6) in the group. Also, the Order of the Martyrs has a fixed membership of 120, scattered around the world, membership is only available "through a dead mans shoes", and your quest is to defeat demons and devils (i.e. evil outsiders). Under 3.5 the Paladins are starting to kick butt (less healing, more smiting) at 6+ level. I think I'll stick to feats for now. Thank you all for your help and input!

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