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Andorax |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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Important Notice
Due to the high availaibity of wall spells, the limited space on the tourney grounds, and a review of the first Conjurer's Chess match, it has been determined that each caster's one allowed prep spell be confined to their half of the board only. A rules change (denoted in red) has been posted, above, and all contest entrants are strongly encouraged to take note of it. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
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Andorax |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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Since there are 11 entrants (assuming no further signups in the waning hours), the format for the tourney will be as follows:
Round 1 will consist of 5 matches, and a bye. No player will be squared up against himself in the first round. This will reduce the field from 11 entrants to 6. Round 2 will consist of 3 matches, reducing the field from 6 to 3. Round 3 will be a "round robin" match between the 3 remaining competitors. If any one summoner wins both of their Round 3 matches, that summoner is the winner. If each of the 3 summoners wins a single round 3 match, the winner will be the one with the highest total score from both of their matches. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
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Lord Twig |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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This may be a little late, but I didn't know much about Psionics before. Looking it over it may have been a mistake to allow them to summon more creatures for extra power points.
The Psions in this match will always be able to summon 5 1st level constructs, 4 2nd level constructs, 3 3rd level constructs and 2 4th level constructs and they will be considerably tougher than any monsters summoned at the same level. This is like having Sudden Maximize on every casting and only the Psions will be able to get more than one 4th level creature out at a time. Am I right in thinking that the Overchannel Feat allows them to increase there caster level to 10 and therefore Augment their 1st level Powers by an additional 8 to 9 points? (8 is all they really need to pull this off.) Just wanted to point out that by "giving them a chance" you may have given them the win. Lord Twig There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Hippocrates Greek physician (460 BC - 377 BC) |
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Frost Numenor |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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I too noticed that Lord Twig, and Had that very thought.
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Lord Twig |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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A few quick comparisons.
1ST-LEVEL ASTRAL CONSTRUCT         Small Construct Hit Dice:        1d10+10 (15 hp) Initiative:        +2 Speed:        30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class:        18 (+2 Dex, +5 natural, +1 size), touch 13, flatfooted 16 Base Attack/Grapple:        +2/1 Attack:        Slam +3 melee (1d4+3) Full Attack:        Slam +3 melee (1d4+3) Space/Reach:        5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks:        Special Qualities:        One ability from Menu A, construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision Saves:        Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities:        Str 15, Dex 15, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills:        Feats:        Environment:        Any Organization:        Solitary Challenge Rating:        1/2 Treasure:        None Alignment:        Always neutral Advancement:        Level Adjustment:        CELESTIAL BADGER         Small Magical Beast Hit Dice:        1d8+2 (6 hp) Initiative:        +3 Speed:        30 ft. (6 squares), burrow 10 ft. Armor Class:        15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12 Base Attack/Grapple:        +0/5 Attack:        Claw +4 melee (1d21) Full Attack:        2 claws +4 melee (1d21) and bite 1 melee (1d31) Space/Reach:        5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks:        Rage, Smite Special Qualities:        Darkvision 60ft.,Low-light vision, scent, Resistance to Acid, Cold, Electricity 5, SR 6 Saves:        Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +1 Abilities:        Str 8, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Skills:        Escape Artist +7, Listen +3, Spot +3 Feats:        TrackB, Weapon Finesse Environment:        Temperate forests Organization:        Solitary, pair, or cete (35) Challenge Rating:        1/2 Advancement:        2 HD (Small) Level Adjustment:        4TH-LEVEL ASTRAL CONSTRUCT         Medium Construct Hit Dice:        5d10+20 (47 hp) Initiative:        +2 Speed:        40 ft. (8 squares) Armor Class:        22 (+2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 12, flatfooted 20 Base Attack/Grapple:        +5/+10 Attack:        Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Full Attack:        Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Space/Reach:        5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks:        Special Qualities:        One ability from Menu B, construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision Saves:        Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +1 Abilities:        Str 25, Dex 15, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills:        Feats:        Environment:        Any Organization:        Solitary Challenge Rating:        3 Treasure:        None Alignment:        Always neutral Advancement:        Level Adjustment:        CELESTIAL DIRE WOLF         Large Magical Beast Hit Dice:        6d8+18 (45 hp) Initiative:        +2 Speed:        50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class:        14 (1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12 Base Attack/Grapple:        +4/+15 Attack:        Bite +11 melee (1d8+10) Full Attack:        Bite +11 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach:        10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks:        Trip, Smite Special Qualities:        Darkvision 60ft., Low-light vision, scent, Damage Resistance 5/magic, Resistance to Acid, Cold, Electricity 5, SR 11 Saves:        Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +6 Abilities:        Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 Skills:        Hide +0, Listen +7, Move Silently +4, Spot +7, Survival +2* Feats:        Alertness, Run, TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite) Environment:        Temperate forests Organization:        Solitary or pack (5 Challenge Rating:        3 Treasure:        None Alignment:        Always neutral Advancement:        718 HD (Large) Level Adjustment:        Of course you can't summon a Large creature, so instead you will probably get something like: LANTERN ARCHON         Small Outsider (Archon, Extraplanar, Good, Lawful) Hit Dice :        1d8 (4 hp) Initiative :        +4 Speed :        Fly 60 ft. (perfect) (12 squares) Armor Class :        15 (+1 size, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15 Base Attack/Grapple :        +1/8 Attack :        Light ray +2 ranged touch (1d6) Full Attack :        2 light rays +2 ranged touch (1d6) Space/Reach :        5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks :        Spell-like abilities Special Qualities :        Aura of menace, damage reduction 10/evil and magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, teleport, tongues Saves :        Fort +2 (+6 against poison), Ref +2, Will +2 Abilities :        Str 1, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills :        Concentration +4, Diplomacy +4, Knowledge (the planes) +2, Listen +4, Sense Motive +4, Spot +4 Feats :        Improved Initiative Environment :        A lawful good-aligned plane Organization :        Solitary, pair, or squad (35) Challenge Rating :        2 Treasure :        None Alignment :        Always lawful good Advancement :        24 HD (Small) Level Adjustment:        Lantern archons appear as floating balls of light that glow about as brightly as a torch. Only their destruction can extinguish the glow, though they can try to hide it. COMBAT A lantern archon has little reason to get within melee range. It usually hovers just close enough to bring the enemy within its aura of menace, then blasts away with its light rays. Lantern archons prefer to concentrate on a single opponent, seeking to reduce enemy numbers quickly. Aura of Menace (Su): Will DC 12 negates. Light Ray (Ex): A lantern archons light rays have a range of 30 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type. Spell-Like Abilities: At willaid, detect evil, continual flame. Caster level 3rd OR AIR MEPHIT         Small Outsider (Air, Extraplanar) Hit Dice:        3d8 (13 hp) Initiative:        +7 Speed:        30 ft. (6 squares), fly 60 ft. (perfect) Armor Class:        17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple:        +3/1 Attack:        Claw +4 melee (1d3) Full Attack:        2 claws +4 melee (1d3) Space/Reach:        5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks:        Breath weapon, spell-like abilities, summon mephit Special Qualities:        Damage reduction 5/magic, darkvision 60 ft., fast healing 2 Saves:        Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +3 Abilities:        Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15 Skills:        Bluff +8, Escape Artist +9, Hide +13, Diplomacy +4, Disguise +2 (+4 acting), Intimidate +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +9, Spot +6, Use Rope +3 (+5 with bindings) Feats:        Dodge, Improved Initiative Environment:        Elemental Plane of Air Organization:        Solitary (1), gang (24 mephits of mixed types), or mob (512 mephits of mixed types) Challenge Rating:        3 Treasure:        Standard Alignment:        Usually neutral Advancement:        46 HD (Small); 79 HD (Medium) Level Adjustment:        +3 (cohort) Air mephits come from the Elemental Plane of Air. An air mephit is about 4 feet tall and weighs about 1 pound. Air mephits speak Common and Auran. Combat Breath Weapon (Su): 15-foot cone of dust and grit, damage 1d8, Reflex DC 12 half. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +1 racial bonus. Spell-Like Abilities: Once per hour an air mephit can surround itself with vapor, duplicating the effect of a blur spell (caster level 3rd). Once per day it can use gust of wind (DC 14, caster level 6th) . The save DC is Charisma-based. Fast Healing (Ex): An air mephit heals only if exposed to moving air, be it a breeze, a draft, a spell effect, or even the mephit fanning itself. There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Hippocrates Greek physician (460 BC - 377 BC) |
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Lord Twig |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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At this point I would like to point out that I am still willing to play out the contest and see how it goes. I am looking forward to it!
But when you look at the stats above you can see that the 1st level Astral Construct (or 5 of them) will rip through anything that can be summoned off the Summon Monster list (or 1d4+1 of them for that matter). And the 4th level comparision is not much better, especially when you consider that the toughest creatures have been removed. Not sure what, if anything you want to do about it at this point. I would be interested to hear the opinions of the Psion players. Lord Twig There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Hippocrates Greek physician (460 BC - 377 BC) |
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Andorax |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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Some comparative facts:
8th level manifester can spend 7 points to manifest AC I with 6pt augmentation to bring in 4 AC Is. 8th level caster can cast a Summon III to summon d4+1 Summon I creatures 8th level caster can cast Conjure Ice Beast III to conjure 4 I Ice Beasts. 8th level manifester can spend 7 points to manifest AC II with 4 pt. augmentation to bring in 3 AC IIs. 8th level caster can cast a Summon IV to summon d4+1 Summon II creatures 8th level caster can cast Conjure Ice Beast IV to conjure 4 II Ice Beasts. 8th level manifester can spend 7 points to manifest AC III with 2 pt. augmentation to bring in 2 AC IIIs. 8th level caster can cast a Summon IV to summon d3 Summon III creatures 8th level caster can cast Conjure Ice Beast IV to conjure 2 III Ice Beasts. 8th level manifester can spend 7 points to manifest AC IV to bring in 1 AC IV. 8th level caster can cast a Summon IV to summon 1 Summon IV creature 8th level caster can cast Conjure Ice Beast IV to conjure 1 IV Ice Beast. The ability to Overchannel allows the two Psions to manifest as 9th level manifesters, and create 1 more astral construct per manifestation (at the cost of damage to themselves). Assuming they don't run out of hit points, and don't burn through their psi-points, they'll be able to beat out I output and IV output, and (potentially) match II and III output. Luck will play a major factor on the caster's side of things. The only feat available to enhance constructs is the "Boost Construct" feat (unsurprisingly, taken by both Psions). The benefits of this feat are questionable when compared to the broad range of potential enhancements to summoned monsters, starting with Augment Summons (which I think EVERY summoner in this match possesses). As well, only some of your comparisons are entirely valid. Rather than comparing the AC I to the Celestial Badger, perhaps you should compare it to the SNA I's Wolf. Yes, the Psions do have some advantages in the match. They also have some drawbacks, and the ACs themselves have some serious limitations to them. I strongly recommend using creativity and some very careful choices to overcome them so far as you are able. Yes, it may prove that they are overpowered...I think the matchs will decide that. If I badly misjudged, and the final round is a round-robin between three psionic challengers, I will take steps for a future tournament to adjust and rebalance matters. Until then, though, I honestly think it's a fair game. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
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Frost Numenor |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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That is why I didn't have a big problem with them being able to do that. It allows psions if it happens to work, but has a good chance to make it a bit powerful. Anyways if we didn't let them go this time we would never know. Also i will just have to defeat them with my dice mana.
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Andorax |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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I have an alternate version as well. The one I am implementing is, I feel, the more balanced of the two.
Plans are in place for an alternate approach if this doesn't work out. I know that's small comfort if your carefully-made wizard or cleric gets trounced in the Tavern League....just plan on coming back for revenge when the third tourney fires up. I'm still optimistic, though, that the method I am using is fair and square. "Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"
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Lord Twig |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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Well I will certainly do my best to uphold the prestige of Wizards everywhere.
The shaman is a complete unknown to me since I don't own Frostburn. For the Psions I was just pointing out the ramifications of the rules change you made for them. With the Meditation, Talented, Hustle combo they can cast as a 10th level caster for the entire 6 round match at a cost of 72 Power Points. But regardless, the die is cast and we will see who ends up on top. Lord Twig There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Hippocrates Greek physician (460 BC - 377 BC) |
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Black Plauge |
Re: Conjurer's Chess II: The Tavern League (rules) | ||
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While Lelki can, in theory cast as a 10th round caster for the entire match, he's got to reaquire his psionic focus each round to make that happen without taking damage (and damage he can't afford to take for long). A DC 20 Concentration check is not a sure thing for him at this level, though I certianly did my best to make it so.
Physics is like sex; it sometimes gives practical results, but that's not why we do it. -Richard Feinman |
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